GUNS: Re: Self Defense

From: Brian D Williams (
Date: Mon Jan 22 2001 - 11:41:55 MST

From: "denis bider" <>

>In normal countries like where I live ;-), nobody has a gun. Only
>licensed hunters, police officers and army officers are allowed to
>have weapons. If anyone else wants to have a weapon, it's a tough
>procedure to get it - among other things, you have to get a
>license and register with the government, and you can be quite
>sure you won't get a license if you have any kind of criminal
>record. Without a license, no purchase possible.

I glad you're happy where you live. By the way where I live just
outside of Chicago, IL you need a license to own a gun as well, and
just as in your country you cannot get a license if you've ever
committed a serious (felony) criminal act.

>Sure, there are gangs and lunatics, and they have illegal guns.
>But they don't shoot people all over the place - in fact, gangs
>very rarely shoot anyone outside of their circles at all [for
>kidnapping victims, they seem to prefer drowning], while lunatics
>typically shoot people they are angry with, they get caught
>easily, and then they get something like a 10 year prison

It's the same thing here, in fact in big cities like Chicago, If
you know the area's to avoid, you would live here your whole life
and never see, or hear a gun.

However please note that it is politically incorrect, and therefore
impolite to talk publicly about these areas and their culture of

The odd part is that here if they do get caught they get a slap on
the wrist as punishment if at all. There are those of us here
trying to change that.

>Sure, the police can "raid your house with a swat team, shoot
>first and ask questions later". But it doesn't happen; we simply
>don't have a national culture of shooting each other. The police
>very rarely use their weapons, even in extreme cases, and each
>bullet is accounted for. And that's even with our police being
>somewhat corrupt - there are reports that some of them take bribes
>to allow some people to do things they shouldn't, but I haven't
>heard of a police officer to shoot a person that is anything less
>than an arrogant, widely known and notorious criminal.

Same here again, although their have been cases of innocent people
being killed in there own homes by SWAT teams that had wrong
information. And of course that Elian Gonzales thing, oh, and the
Ruby Ridge thing, oh, and the Branch Davidian thing, but that's
pretty much it.

>So, I don't think America's aversion against banning guns has any
>rational structure at all. There is no need to buy them back.
>There is no need to be easy on guns. You just ban them, instate a
>heavy fine on owning illegal weapons, and that's it. Give everyone
>a year or two to get used to the fact, and the problem is solved.

You have it backwards, we don't have an aversion, the vast majority
of Americans own guns, between 65 and 80 million of us. Compare
that to the fact that 100 million voted in the last election and
you can see gun owners are a clear majority here.

>In particular, your argument about someone protecting themselves
>with a gun while the police "raid his house with a swat team" is,
>well, far off. I think your swat teams are expert enough that no
>one will survive shooting back against them. If they want to shoot
>you, they can do it anyway - pretending a gun provides any real
>protection against the police is an illusion. The only thing you
>might be able to do with it is kill a few good police officers
>before they put a bullet in your head for doing so.

Good police officers like any other person with common sense would
think twice before launching an assault against an armed home, but
this is very much beside the point. We are a civilized nation and
the place for disagreements is in the courts.

The vast majority of my fellow gun owners see guns as tools to do
a job, nothing more. A tool you hope never to use, but one you're
damn glad to have if the need arises.


Extropy Institute,
Adler Planetarium
Life Extension Foundation,
National Rifle Association,, 1.800.672.3888
Ameritech Data Center Chicago, IL, Local 134 I.B.E.W

This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Mon May 28 2001 - 09:56:22 MDT