Re: some U.S. observations and notes

From: Samantha Atkins (
Date: Sat Dec 15 2001 - 18:31:00 MST

"J. R. Molloy" wrote:

> Look at the incredible insanity of people who are willing to sacrifice their
> lives for meaningless drivel! Are we to complain about "commercialism" in the
> face of such an immense tragedy as millions of people taking this religious
> garbage seriously? Time to remind ourselves again:
> We won't move into a better future until we debunk religiosity... once and for
> all.

Unfortunately you don't seem to distinquish between
"religiosity" and spirituality.
My spirituality informs my extropian views and vice versa. I
don't say others
need to think like me. But I also don't cotton to implications
that I and those
who do are "the problem".

> Excellent analysis, Spike. Let me point out, however, that people in general,
> and even some on this email list, fear incorrect meme identification as much
> as they fear meme-destroying weaponry. A machine that can accurately identify
> incorrect thinking is the most frightening project in all of technology and
> science, because such a machine threatens our cherished beliefs, and seems to
> foretell of the displacement of human thought by something better and more
> efficient.

I fear those who believe they are so righteous and
right-thinking that they can
distinquish when such a machine is working properly and who plan
to apply it to
sort human beings.
> > Granted. This is what happens in war. War is a crime. We hate
> > all war and wish to end it. Ideally all killing should end. How?
> Ideals are not for the real world, because they are self-contradictory.
> "Support the peace movement, or we'll kill you." The only way we could have
> universal peace would be to end life altogether. Killing is part of life. Get
> used to it.

Ideals are only for the real world. Where else? Peace is
really peace not a threat
of violence if you disagree. Killing other sentients is not
part of my life. That
I can choose shows there is a choice. It is not a "fact of
nature" that is immutable
and we can do nothing about it. We determine our behavior.
What will you choose?

> Yep, that's it. We want to be safe and secure, but we also want to be free.
> Hence, the Taliban and Al Quaida must go
> (and I'd add all religious and ideological fanatics as well).

Well now. I am religious (although I mostly have to roll my
own). Enough so that
it is a very central part of my life. I plan to become an
interfaith minister.
Does that make me a "fanatic" that "must go"? Let us bring it
down to brass tacks here.
Let's bring it to the level of real human beings instead of
labels. Because it is at that
level that the world will be won or lost and that each of us
will live in heaven or in hell.

- samantha

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