Re: some U.S. observations and notes

From: J. R. Molloy (
Date: Sat Dec 15 2001 - 08:00:11 MST

From: "Spike Jones" <>
> My notion is that we have insufficient technology to do much
> else besides what is currently being done.

Yes, I agree, and I'd add that doing much else would not get sufficient
support from tax payers and voters, so policy is set by consensus as much as
by technology.

> I have a vision of what future weapons will be like. These might not
> even be recognizable as weapons, at least not in the sense that we
> know weapons today. They would not hurl chunks of metal the
> way our current primitive weapons do. Extrapolate the trends from
> the last half century in technology. Imagine advanced weapons that
> would not destroy property, nor even lives. Sufficiently advanced
> weaponry would not even cause physical injury. They would,
> however destroy certain memes. Sufficiently advanced weaponry
> would destroy the memes that motivate the Taliban to do the
> inhuman acts they carried out on such a massive scale.

I doubt that such weapons would *ever* get public approval. How could they?
The general public already believes that everyone else is brainwashed by
government conspiracies and indoctrination. People fear the loss of their
precious belief systems more than they fear death... else how to explain the
suicide bombers/terrorists. If 9-11 proves nothing else, it proves that people
would rather die than give up their religiosity and superstitious memes.

> Unfortunately we currently do not have sufficiently advanced weapons.
> Let us develop them.

Forget weapons. Instead, let us deprogram people.

> But the government has nothing to say to business
> about how they sell their products.

That'll be the day! Government regulates rather strictly how products are
sold, IMO.

> This is anarcho-capitalism at work.
> Crass as it is, I would have it no other way, for I know of no other
> way that would work as well, nor any other way which would work
> under the sacred first amendment of the US constitution. Do you?

Capitalism is nature's way of creating economic extropy.

> Bin Laden has quoted a verse in the Koran which says "...Fight
> them [the infidels] until they confess that there is no God but Allah..."

Look at the incredible insanity of people who are willing to sacrifice their
lives for meaningless drivel! Are we to complain about "commercialism" in the
face of such an immense tragedy as millions of people taking this religious
garbage seriously? Time to remind ourselves again:
We won't move into a better future until we debunk religiosity... once and for

> The Taliban seem to have a special hatred for the US, however
> they also consider all of Europe as the home of infidels. Guided
> by the words of Mohammed, they would fight there as well, until
> every European confesses that there is no god but allah. Europe
> cannot be ruled by the koran. Asia cannot be ruled by a koran-
> inspired tyrant.

Well said. The time for grief has passed, and the death of tyranny is
necessary to prevent further grief. If commercialism can defeat religious
tyranny, then let's celebrate commercialism.

> Given that we have no advanced meme-destroying weaponry,
> we are stuck with the ancient technique of destroying the
> meme carrier. The evidence is sufficient: OBL and his minions
> hate us, they want us dead. We want us alive. I am open to
> suggestion here.

Excellent analysis, Spike. Let me point out, however, that people in general,
and even some on this email list, fear incorrect meme identification as much
as they fear meme-destroying weaponry. A machine that can accurately identify
incorrect thinking is the most frightening project in all of technology and
science, because such a machine threatens our cherished beliefs, and seems to
foretell of the displacement of human thought by something better and more

> Granted. This is what happens in war. War is a crime. We hate
> all war and wish to end it. Ideally all killing should end. How?

Ideals are not for the real world, because they are self-contradictory.
 "Support the peace movement, or we'll kill you." The only way we could have
universal peace would be to end life altogether. Killing is part of life. Get
used to it.

> Again, we are open to suggestion. Appeasement will not
> stop the violence. This planet will not be ruled by the koran.

Nor will this planet be ruled by the Torah nor the Bible...
That way leads to madness.

> Honestly, we cannot stop our culture from invading theirs, for
> we cannot stop radio waves. Our government does not control
> business, it does not control Hollywood Incorporated. The
> US government cannot be held responsible for that which our
> own first amendment prevents it from controlling.

It's not "our" culture anyway... It's simply the modern world, as Fukuyama has
pointed out.

> The Taliban hate the infidel because they know their own people
> will choose the ways of the infidel over the ways of allah,
> *if given the freedom to choose*. If their people can pick up
> Baywatch, they will do so. The reprehensible Taliban fights
> by destroying freedom, in order to preserve their deplorable
> memes. If you can think of a way to destroy those memes,
> without destroying the meme carriers, we are open to suggestion.

Commercialism is looking better all the time.

> I have no doubts there will be more terrorism. Our infrastructure
> is still very vulnerable, especially airlines and roads. We need
> better technology for discovering and preventing such attacks.
> That is something every pacifist will support.

Yep, that's it. We want to be safe and secure, but we also want to be free.
Hence, the Taliban and Al Quaida must go
(and I'd add all religious and ideological fanatics as well).

--- --- --- --- ---

Useless hypotheses, etc.:
 consciousness, phlogiston, philosophy, vitalism, mind, free will, qualia,
analog computing, cultural relativism, GAC, Cyc, Eliza, cryonics, individual
uniqueness, ego, human values, scientific relinquishment, malevolent AI,
non-sensory experience, SETI

We move into a better future in proportion as science displaces superstition.

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