From: -randy (cryofan@mylinuxisp.com)
Date: Sat Jun 21 2003 - 14:29:51 MDT
On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 18:05:25 EDT, you wrote:
>In a message dated 6/20/2003 11:16:23 AM Central Standard Time,
>cryofan@mylinuxisp.com writes: And I disagree with the poster who earlier said that lack
>of capital is NOT a problem for the average citizen of a TWC. That is a BIG
>problem. 20K dollars is very hard to come by there. And 20K gives you a lot of
>power in a TWC. 20K in my bank account here makes me no big deal. But 20K in
>India puts me in an elite group. Now, as someone else pointed out, and to
>which I elaborated, most TWCs are strangled by a parasitic bureaucracy. This
>**could** be a problem for Americans who wanted to seize upon the opportunity to
>start a business in a TWC.
...........
> The point is subtle enough that you and de Soto are not necessarily
>saying the same thing but the distinction is sometimes hard to detect. De Soto
>is saying that the necessary capital exists in each of those countries to lift
>them up --
Oh, the capital definitely exists, but not for the average person in a
TWC.
> Those bureaucracies you say are strangling countries are in fact
>strangling TW countries and furthermore that is exactly what they were designed to
>do. Our old guild system and the medieval governments were designed to keep
>control in the hands of a favored few. So are the bureaucracies of the TWCs.
>They keep things in a state so that no outsider can start any kind of a new
>business. One of the chief ways they do that in modern terms is to keep
>individuals from getting clear title to private property.
Maybe....an interesting way to focus in on effect vs. design.
> The individuals form protective associations to protect their
>ownership in their homes or small businesses. But that is where the problem starts.
>If I cannot get a title to my property then I can't sell or borrow against it
>to raise capital to start a new business. De Soto makes the argument that
>this method is the chief way people raise the cash to start a new business.
>Nowadays if I want to start a business I can get a mortgage on my house and I am
>up, up and away. A TWC citizen can't do that because he has nothing admissible
>in court to prove ownership.
Yes, I work with a man from Venezuela, a country much better off than
most in S. America, and he just sold a condo he owned there. He told
me that one thing about owning property there is that you are never
really sure what you really have.
> Now, if you please I want to reach way out in left field and pull in a
>personal idea. Let me put it in the form of a question.
> Many have commented that we have a brighter than average group here on
>the Extropian list. Herrnstein in the Bell Curve argues that bright groups
>like this are coming together all over America. That is all he had statistics
>for but it seems plain to me that the same is happening in Europe, indeed
>across the globe.
Yes, I and others have said that the Net may be the Deus Ex Machina to
save us from corrupt CorpGovMedia that has all citizens in its grip to
varying degrees with the possible exception of some of the WEstern
European countries. The Net may be the cracker barrel/corner
store/tavern of the small towns, where the citizens were able to make
the decisions that made sure their govt (at least the local govts)
worked for them, instead of them working for it. The Net has the
potential of remaking every state/nation into a small town.
> In the old days before a hundred years ago the bright people were
>scattered through the population according to Herrnstein. Without getting tied
>down in an argument about whether he was an adequate statistician ask yourself
>two questions:
>1. Do you see sufficient evidence around you to make you believe bright
>people might be communicating with each other more intensely that in the long ago
>past -- pre 1900 AD? As I said, I think this is observably true at least as a
>trend.
Of course.
>2. What do you suppose the effect will be of these people congregating in
>places like the Extropy list and exchanging information?
Not sure how the smart person angle figures into it...
>Once upon a time even
>some very bright people didn't get to converse with a Robin Hanson on
>Economics or Investing. There are other discussions on these pages about longevity,
>health, etc. I say these discussion will have a profound effect upon people
>and eventually our entire civilization. Have you been exposed to the ideas of
>John Taylor Gatto on public education? What he says is having a tremendous
>effect for either good or ill and the rest of us had best inform ourselves.
Well, for those inclined to read extensively, there were always books
and libraries before the Net. All of us on this list grew in
libraries to a great extent, no doubt. The effect on the hoi polloi
is what may cause great change.
-------------
-Randy
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