From: Dan Fabulich (dfabulich@warpmail.net)
Date: Tue Jun 17 2003 - 18:06:25 MDT
Eliezer S. Yudkowsky wrote:
> Robin Hanson wrote:
> >
> > Yes, humans are naturally moderately rational, and naturally use and
> > improve that rationality as long as doing so does not threaten our
> > cherished self-deceptions. The extra cost I had in mind was having to
> > deal with an "enemy" (our subconscious) that knows us very well and has
> > had long evolution-embodied experience in fooling us into thinking we
> > have made progress when we have not. My estimate that this cost is very
> > high is in part based on the very small fraction of people that seem to
> > incur this cost and successfully overcome their biases.
>
> This cost is not a loss as a result of rationality, it's an expenditure
> that needs to be made to get to rationality... um, review: what is it, if
> anything, that we still disagree about? I would say that, even
> instrumentally, the benefits of rationality are higher than the losses,
> and that the costs involved do not alter this. I am under the impression
> you still disagree with this, or that you assign it a weaker degree of
> belief?
Uh, it seems to me that the question at issue is when (if ever) the cost
of rationality is "too high." Robin Hanson has argued that not only does
this happen (often), it is, in fact, what happens most of the time for
most people.
> I confess I wasn't even counting the time-energy budget as a loss, just
> taking it for granted as something a person's gotta do eventually.
> However, even taking into account the substantial cost in time and
> mental energy, I still say it's the all-time best investment I ever made
> and I still think it's worth a shot for others too.
I suspect that Robin's characterization of the time-energy cost was only a
characterization of the costs which rise on account of piecemeal
acceptance of rationality. (ie. it's harder to be rational when you can
do so bit-by-bit, because it's easier to believe that you've already made
plenty of progress.)
But Robin has already described a variety of other costs of rationality
that have little to do with the cost/difficulty of overcoming your own
subconscious: for example, the inability to engage in certain kinds of
social situations, the opportunity-cost of missing out on group loyalty,
and so on.
-Dan
-unless you love someone-
-nothing else makes any sense-
e.e. cummings
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