From: Lee Corbin (lcorbin@tsoft.com)
Date: Thu Mar 27 2003 - 09:37:15 MST
Brett Paatsch lays down the challenge for the concept of
*international law* to be given a fair hearing. In it
he especially warns of the two frequent evolution of our
society towards the position that the law is something
only judges and lawyers are permitted to fully understand
or appreciate---a kind of new nobility capable of interpreting
all that is above the heads of the rest of us.
Certainly our constitutions and our laws *MUST* be interpretable
and understandable by lay people. The law is, as Lincoln said,
by the people and for the people.
Lee
P.S. And for all those who think that Bush is a complete moron,
it's probable that he has more respect and understanding of
international law than you do.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-extropians@extropy.org
> [mailto:owner-extropians@extropy.org]On Behalf Of Brett Paatsch
> Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 10:59 PM
> To: extropians@extropy.org
> Subject: [War/Politics] Is the war legal or illegal? Decide for yourself
>
> Hi Extropes,
>
> Whilst I may continue to debate with some other list
> members the relevance and importance of international law
> it is worth pointing out that international law exists. (It is the
> bases of the Geneva conventions too). That it does exist,
> and that it is important remains common ground to all the
> heads of state of member nations of the UN, but perhaps,
> especially to the heads of permanent security council
> members. Presidents Bush and Chirac do NOT dispute
> the existence of international law, or that their countries are
> signatures to the UN Charter. Rather they DO dispute what
> the law is. And that dispute is crucial both to the nature of this
> war and to the prospects of making any international peace.
>
> I realize that international law is probably outside the comfort
> zones and normal areas of immediate interest for many people
> including some of the bright capable people who frequent this
> list. But right now is not a good time for smart folks to be
> allowing international law to become a new form of scripture
> and to assume that it can only be interpreted to commonfolk
> by priesthoods of various political persuasions. It has been
> said that democracies get the governments that they deserve.
> And Sagan has written a book that is part of the recommended
> reading list called the Demon Haunted World. I would
> encourage all extropes to look beyond the temptation to
> merely stick with the easy emotional biases that come to all of
> us and to 'take a good look through the telescope' rather than
> just guess at the truth. If extropic goals are to be realised in
> our lifetimes we cannot afford to be too introspective with
> respect to the affairs and politics of the world. Now is not
> the time, international law is not an issue, in which it is
> sensible for people with extropic aspirations to take the
> view that they can afford to be tourists, passengers, or
> uncritical believers. If we do, we become part of the
> problem, part of the inertia against change that we are
> trying to work against. We cede more power to politicians
> and demand of them less accountability each time we fail to
> engage. Death and conservatism are the defaults.
>
> I commend to those extropes who wish to engage with
> the substantial challenges of our times with their own minds
> directly the following legal opinions for their own personal
> consideration. They are not an easy read necessarily but if
> you accept as I do that the rule of law and the honouring of
> agreements is not irrelevant to extropic aspirations them I
> urge you to recognize that they are an important read.
>
> Here is a link (one page only and a repost) to the
> Australian and UK Attorney General's argument in support
> of the view that the war would be lawful.
>
> http://open.gov.uk/NewsRoom/NRArticle/0,1169,223412~801b22~fs~en,00.html
>
> Now here is a link to one of two opinions provided to the
> Australian Federal Opposition Leader Simon Crean
> arguing, after having had the opportunity to consider the
> above, that the war is illegal.
>
> http://www.gtcentre.unsw.edu.au/Crean%20Iraq%20Advice.doc
>
> The other supporting opinion, provided to the Opposition
> leader, and which I have sourced from its author, I can also
> make available to any one that is interested.
>
> Regards,
> Brett Paatsch
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> [Note to newbies]: The views above are only the views of this poster.
> For a statement of Extropian Principles see:
> http://www.extropy.org/ideas/principles.html
> Other documents worth a look:
> The Constitution of the United States of America.
> http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.overview.html
> The Charter of The United Nations.
> http://www.un.org/aboutun/charter/index.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
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