re: ECI, ICI (excitatory culture impulse)

From: Amara Graps (
Date: Tue Nov 13 2001 - 07:53:22 MST

From: "Andy Toth" <>, Sun, 11 Nov 2001
From: Amara:
>>The music is still precious today to the Greeks.
>the [Greek] people seem to be programmed for a higher "suffering
>index" affinity. (ie, 'suffering-withdrawal' is a larger part of my life
>because my government has 'suffering' set to high value).

Would you accept that there is a "character" to a culture? Whatever
role the government plays in that culture reflects (to the degree that
the government represents the people) the people in that culture. And
if you accept a culture "character", then is the "character" all due
to the surrounding society? I know Italians who still act Italian,
after having been away from Italy for many years.

>like there is this song that has the chorus: (i suffer, i suffer, i
>suffer, i suffer) female vocals with a techno beat; it is beautiful
>physically. i have never seen anything like it (i am ignorant of that
>level of suffering).

Did you dance? :-)
Greeks dance when they are grieving to get their suffering out.

>however,what similar elements exist in america, or the non-america?

I'm most sensitive to music because of my family background, maybe
I can make some observations of the "suffering elements"

America: Blues music
  suffering index: pretty low

Slavs (Russians, Poles, I know mostly): Literature like Doestoevsky,
Krzysztof Kieslowski (Polish filmaker who I think is the best filmaker
who ever lived) explores deep troubling "human condition" situations,
Zbigniew Preisner (composer) music are like haunting arias
  suffering index: pretty high

  suffering index pretty low. I've not heard really sad French music
yet to be honest. There is a French crooner named Dany Brillant who
sings all about his broken heart, but he sounds incredibly happy. The
Franco-ized versions of Greek rebetikas by the partially French group
Bratsch ( are much more "upbeat" than the other old
Greek rebetikas that I have.

  suffering index pretty low. Even with Carmina Burana in their history,
I've not found 'suffering elements' yet.

  This culture is probably as expressive (or more?) as the Greeks
(I think that if you tied an Italian's hands behind their back, they
would not be able to talk), but I don't know yet where are the suffering
icons, if they exist. The Italian crooner Paolo Conte sounds rough and
gritty, like he's singing in a smoke-filled bar, but he doesn't sound
like he is drowning in his sorrows. suffering index still undetermined.




************************************************************************ Amara Graps, PhD | Max-Planck-Institut fuer Kernphysik Heidelberg Cosmic Dust Group | Saupfercheckweg 1 +49-6221-516-543 | 69117 Heidelberg, GERMANY * ************************************************************************ "Never fight an inanimate object." - P. J. O'Rourke

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