Re: GUNS: Why here?

From: Chuck Kuecker (
Date: Fri Oct 27 2000 - 15:20:32 MDT

At 01:01 PM 10/26/00 -0700, Joe Dees wrote:
> >
>The Million Mom March began as an idea in the mind of a single mom, and
>spread like wildfire, as it resonated with a majority of the populace.
>Actually, the well-orchestrated campaign belongs to, and always has
>belonged to, the NRA, which is unparalleled in their foisting of
>lies-with-statistics (the baby-drowning-in-buckets urban legend being a
>prime example, which I have previously debunked), and which spends more
>than twice as much as those who wish responsible and loophole-free gun
>laws in this country. As far as getting all the guns out of this country,
>that is, as far as I am concerned, a baldfaced propagandistic LIE, as my
>wish is just to see them kept out of the hands of psychos, violent
>crinimals and children, as far as is legally possible, without infringing
>upon the rights of sane and law-abiding adults to purchase, keep and
>bear. To have the resonsible armed and the irresponsible unarmed is in my
>opinion the best of all possible worlds, and although this ideal is not
>achoeveable in practice, I would like to see it approached as closely as
>is practicably possible. Only children, psychos and violent criminals
>would approve of children, psychos and violent criminals packing. BTW;
>people praise George Soros' committment to marijuana decriminalization;
>well, finally the responsible gun ownership lobby has their own George
>Soros, and it is the NRA's worst nightmare, as their War On Drugs clone
>War On Responsible Gun Ownership is now facing principled, popular,
>committed and financed opposition.
>I have returned from a week camping in the Blackwater wilderness area and
>a week sunning and recuperating in a Fort Walton condo (without an armed
>guard); Hava Happy, Y'all!

Joe, Joe, Joe!

The MMM is NOT, repeat, NOT, the simple brainchild of a concerned mother.
Check out Donna Dees-Thomases credentials. She is NOT just a worried
housewife - she is best friends with Hillary and Bill (or one of her
relatives is) and she works as a press secretary for people like Dan
Rather. Hardly an innocent. Do the words "politically connected" ring a bell?

A majority of the populace? The numbers speak for themselves. Nationwide,
they have about 250,000 show up to the Mother's Day rally. The press
inflated the numbers to 750,000. Many participants interviewed stated that
they came to see what the fuss was about, not because they supported the
MMM. The MMM publicly stated a month or so back that they had "30 chapters,
each with at least 20 members" nationwide, and that they were expecting a
few "hundred" more. A check of the leaders of the MMM chapters turns up the
same -male- name as the leader of many of them. Obviously, they do not have
a majority even of women supporting them as members.

The Northbrook, Illinois chapter of the MMM, run by a man, boasts four (4)
members in a town of over 30,000. At a recent hearing on banning handguns
in Northbrook, they had three speakers for a ban versus about 50 against
any more "gun control".

The MMM, for all its' grass-rootedness, has anonymous donors who sent
multi-million dollar checks. Corporate sponsors. Ex-Secret Service agents
as "security advisers". Pre-printed, professionally designed literature,
banners, buttons, flags, and whatnot. This is a packaged, manufactured
movement trying to disguise itself as "grassroots".

The NRA, on the other hand, receives most of its' operating budget from
its' members, like myself and almost four million other Americans.

The MMM's tax-exempt status came under fire, as they were supposedly not
allowed to be politically active under their original charter. They
switched tax horses quickly when this was pointed out. There has been no
official probe, that I have heard of, into this breaking of tax laws. If
this had been a pro-rights group that had pulled the same stunt, I have no
doubt that the IRS and Janet Reno would be all over them.

Are you any relation to Ms. Dees-Thomases, by the way?

Handgun Control, Inc. has publicly stated more than once that the ultimate
goal is removal of all privately held weapons. Dianne Feinstein and Charles
Schumer have said said the same numerous times. It is a public front that
the anti-gunners use to gull the undecided into thinking that the
"reasonable" gun control is all they want. The registration or banning of
handguns is just a first step. The anti-gunners want to nibble the
Constitution to death, as it is inconvenient to have to put up with free
speech, getting warrants for searches, etc. They just want to trash the
works - and unless they can disarm the public, they can't succeed with the
rest of the agenda.

The "lie" that IS a lie, is that they would get "all" the guns out. They
would not try to disarm the police, or the military - those functions are
required to maintain order over the other group who will never be disarmed
- the criminals. Obviously, it is physically impossible to rid the country
of guns, and it will also be physically impossible to enforce "gun control"
to the point where the bad guys cannot get weapons.

Anyone who buys into the myth that "gun control" is either necessary or
will result in less than the total destruction of the Second Amendment in
the US is living in a dream world.

You are right - it IS a "War On Responsible Gun Ownership" and it is being
run by some of the same people who are responsible for the War On (some)
Drugs. It seems that sometimes the WOD is being used as a lever to further
the War on Guns.

Finally, if someone can show me a method that keeps the guns out of the
wacko's hands WITHOUT destroying my right (and your right) to defend
ourselves, I would like to hear about it. So far, all the present laws have
done is restrict my options, reduce my safety and waste my time.

I have taken enough Extropian bandwidth on this subject. From here on, if
you want to continue the argument, please meet me at I promise not to post on this subject again unless
there is a discussion that seems less like hitting my head against a brick

Chuck Kuecker

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