Date sent: Wed, 26 May 1999 14:02:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian D Williams <talon57@well.com> To: extropians@extropy.org Subject: Re: Property rights Send reply to: extropians@extropy.com
>
> From: "Joe E. Dees" <joedees@bellsouth.net>
>
> >Then enforce them. Laws only change behavior when they are
> >coupled with real penalties.
>
> We agree, the problem isn't with guns, it's with the lack of
> prosecution of those who misuse them.
>
> >> Require trigger locks? Big deal, you may have to sell them, but
> >> compliance with using them will be near zero.
>
> >An unsupported assumption. Scientific study and author(s),
> >please.
>
> It hasn't been done yet, But I'll place a wager on it.
>
> >>Chicago, handguns have been illegal since 1982 (unconstitutional)
> >> the murder capitol of the U.S. Prosecution for illegal
> >>possession near zero.
>
> >Wrongo; that is Washington, D.C.
>
> Wrongo: Washington D.C. is number two this year.
>
> >Anyone should be willling to either die or kill for freedom of
> >thought and expression in this country.
>
> That's the first amendment, what about the rest?
>
The NRA had better be thankful that the past two school years
didn't happen back when the Bill of Rights was being written.
>
> >> So how many of these 5 guns have trigger locks?
>
> >None, but no kids. Now that you mention it, however, I should be
> >willing to walk my talk, so I'll purchase them.
>
> Do yourself a favor, put them in a gun safe instead, better
> protection. There are small models for individual handguns
>
> >>Military? Name, rank, serial number please.
>
> >AX2 Joe E. Dees, USN (I hunted nuclear submarines from H-2's
> >and P-3's and pulled downed pilots out of the drink in the helos
> >(SAR - Sea Air Rescue). And you?
>
> Marine,Cpl meritorious, originally with Recon but after the third
> refusal to go to the Naval Academy I was sent to avionics (A-
> 6E,EA6-B)
>
>
> >I oppose the rampant irresponsibility I see in the cynical
> >promotion of firearms to our youth. Remember that the Golden
> >boy's father was NRA, the boy had been through their gun safety
> >course, etc., if the NRA was the 4-H, he'd hava had a blue ribbon
> >bull. He still shot a whole lot of people from that ridge.
>
> I'm not sure which of the recent incidences you are refering to,
> but where is the cynical promotion.
>
The simplistic Shane meme, which is that of righteous people
pushed too far by bullies who resolve the situation with a lead
housecleaning. Standard movie fodder.
>
> >> Such laws already exist, try enforcing them.
>
> >We agree here - we should do just that.
>
> We do agree on this.
>
>
> >> The existing gun laws, minus those that are unconstitutional,
> >> (handgun bans, assault weapons ban) are sufficient if enforced.
>
> >Tell that to the parents of the Littleton dead, that B.G checks at
> >gun shows aren't needed. I'd love to see how they answered you.
>
> They broke 20 laws, they could easily break another one.
>
If that's the one they couldn't get around, it coulda saved some
lives.
>
> >> We will never work together with the antigun folks, their desire
> >>is to eliminate all guns.
>
> >Your us-them mentality and subsequent hard-line circle-the-
> >wagons extremism is one of the main obstacles to reasonable
> >people co-opreating to craft reasonable solutions.
>
> It is us/them with the anti-gun crowd, they want the total
> elimination of all guns, period.
>
I'm not for the elimination of guns, but I am against their
irresponsible profusion. Each side sees only extremists in the
other, so no one meets in the middle and works anything out.
>
> Here in Illinois we have FOID cards (Fire owner I.D.) which
> requires a background check, plus an Instacheck every time a
> purchase is attempted. There are criminal penalties for transfering
> a gun to a noncard member, and a record of all transactions must be
> kept for ten years. There is a one day waiting period for long
> guns, and three days for a handgun. Very reasonable. NRA approved.
>
> What we really need is the Supreme court to quit chickening out on
> the issue and rule that the right to keep and bear arms is an
> individual right. Then we can have the currently unconstitutionial
> laws abolished (handgun ban, assault weapons ban) and pass
> reasonable federal legislation.
>
> >> I have to go send the NRA a check....
> >>
> >> <interuption for phone call to NRA>
> >>
>
> >Say Hi to your poster Moses for me.
>
> Will do.
>
> Brian
> Member, Extropy Institute
> www.extropy.org
> Member, Life Extension Foundation
> www.lef.org
> Member, National Rifle Association
> www.nra.org
> 1.800.672.3888
>
>