Re: Property rights

Brian D Williams (
Wed, 26 May 1999 14:02:22 -0700 (PDT)

From: "Joe E. Dees" <>

>Then enforce them. Laws only change behavior when they are
>coupled with real penalties.

We agree, the problem isn't with guns, it's with the lack of prosecution of those who misuse them.

>> Require trigger locks? Big deal, you may have to sell them, but
>> compliance with using them will be near zero.

>An unsupported assumption. Scientific study and author(s),

It hasn't been done yet, But I'll place a wager on it.

>>Chicago, handguns have been illegal since 1982 (unconstitutional)
>> the murder capitol of the U.S. Prosecution for illegal
>>possession near zero.

>Wrongo; that is Washington, D.C.

Wrongo: Washington D.C. is number two this year.

>Anyone should be willling to either die or kill for freedom of
>thought and expression in this country.

That's the first amendment, what about the rest?

>> So how many of these 5 guns have trigger locks?

>None, but no kids. Now that you mention it, however, I should be
>willing to walk my talk, so I'll purchase them.

Do yourself a favor, put them in a gun safe instead, better protection. There are small models for individual handguns

>>Military? Name, rank, serial number please.

>AX2 Joe E. Dees, USN (I hunted nuclear submarines from H-2's
>and P-3's and pulled downed pilots out of the drink in the helos
>(SAR - Sea Air Rescue). And you?

Marine,Cpl meritorious, originally with Recon but after the third refusal to go to the Naval Academy I was sent to avionics (A- 6E,EA6-B)

>I oppose the rampant irresponsibility I see in the cynical
>promotion of firearms to our youth. Remember that the Golden
>boy's father was NRA, the boy had been through their gun safety
>course, etc., if the NRA was the 4-H, he'd hava had a blue ribbon
>bull. He still shot a whole lot of people from that ridge.

I'm not sure which of the recent incidences you are refering to, but where is the cynical promotion.

>> Such laws already exist, try enforcing them.

>We agree here - we should do just that.

We do agree on this.

>> The existing gun laws, minus those that are unconstitutional,
>> (handgun bans, assault weapons ban) are sufficient if enforced.

>Tell that to the parents of the Littleton dead, that B.G checks at
>gun shows aren't needed. I'd love to see how they answered you.

They broke 20 laws, they could easily break another one.

>> We will never work together with the antigun folks, their desire
>>is to eliminate all guns.

>Your us-them mentality and subsequent hard-line circle-the-
>wagons extremism is one of the main obstacles to reasonable
>people co-opreating to craft readonable solutions.

It is us/them with the anti-gun crowd, they want the total elimination of all guns, period.

Here in Illinois we have FOID cards (Fire owner I.D.) which requires a background check, plus an Instacheck every time a purchase is attempted. There are criminal penalties for transfering a gun to a noncard member, and a record of all transactions must be kept for ten years. There is a one day waiting period for long guns, and three days for a handgun. Very reasonable. NRA approved.

What we really need is the Supreme court to quit chickening out on the issue and rule that the right to keep and bear arms is an individual right. Then we can have the currently unconstitutionial laws abolished (handgun ban, assault weapons ban) and pass reasonable federal legislation.

>> I have to go send the NRA a check....
>> <interuption for phone call to NRA>

>Say Hi to your poster Moses for me.

Will do.

Member, Extropy Institute
Member, Life Extension Foundation
Member, National Rifle Association