RE: Transgender marriage

From: Harvey Newstrom (
Date: Fri Jan 18 2002 - 08:58:05 MST

Samantha Atkins wrote,
> It does not follow that a guy asking a guy for a date is going
> to engage in sodomy. There are a few more gay male sexual
> practices than that and, contrary to popular believe, not all
> gay guys screw every time opportunity knocks in any case. So it
> does not follow that asking for a date is illegal.

Just because it's illogical, you think it isn't the law? Judges routinely
assume that someone who meets a guy in a gay bar and then leaves with him to
go to a hotel is going to have sex. Merely sharing a hotel room is illegal
cohabitation in Florida. The cops don't have to prove sex, just that they
went to a hotel proves they are guilty as charged. This isn't theoretical,
this is how cops do sting operations against gays. The solicit someone to
come to their hotel room, and they don't even have to mention sex.

> Nor does it
> follow that the cops can know what someone is loitering for
> necessarily. So just standing around is certainly not illegal.

This also doesn't matter for Florida law. Mere "loitering" is a crime even
if they can't prove it is for gay sex, prostitution, drugs, or other
purposes. You can even be arrested if they catch you not carrying ID in
Florida! There is even a law allowing the police to detain you on
"suspicion" without ever having to specify suspicion of what. It also is
possible to get arrested for resisting arrest with no other charges. The
law doesn't have to make sense. Cops routinely fall back to these charges
if other charges fail. I have seen dismissed drunk-driving cases turn into
sex-crimes cases because the guy had a date in the car. I have seen
political activists writing columns for a newsletter get charged with
conspiracy to incite others to commit illegal acts. I have seen lesbian
couples have their own children taken away just because they were gay. I
have seen adoptions reversed when the man admitted have a homosexual affair.
I have seen people kicked off school boards or barred from public office
just for being gay. Being gay, having gay sex, or hoping to have gay sex is
illegal in Florida. Breaking these laws has serious consequences and is
routinely enforced on a small segment of the population.

> You seem to have a pretty strained concept of law.

This is not some theoretical rant or my strange interpretation of the
statutes. My partner and I routinely bail gays out of the local jail for
these ridiculous charges and help them get legal help. I know this sounds
absurd in modern America, but welcome to my world.

It is illegal for me to cohabitate with my partner. We could be hauled off
to jail and registered as sex offenders just for being a gay couple. They
don't even have to prove sexual contact under Florida law. We had to
struggle to buy a house together because it is illegal for us to cohabitate
in Florida. We had problems getting insurance because of known illegal
activity in the house. My professional memberships, certifications and
government clearances have all been challenged because of my illegal
activity. It is a constant battle just to live where I live, live with whom
I live, work in my chosen profession, and do business with the organizations
I do. I am not making this stuff up.

Harvey Newstrom, CISSP <>
Principal Security Consultant, Newstaff Inc. <>
Board of Directors, Extropy Institute <>
Cofounder, Pro-Act <>

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Fri Nov 01 2002 - 13:37:35 MST