Re: Transgender marriage

From: Samantha Atkins (
Date: Fri Jan 18 2002 - 00:13:14 MST

Harvey Newstrom wrote:

> Samantha Atkins wrote,
>>I don't think it is accurate to say gay dating or sex is illegal
>>in most US states. A handful of states still have sodomy laws
>>they selectively enforce.
> OK, I just checked this at a law site. Only 17/50 U.S. states still have
> such laws on the books. That's one-third instead of "most".

Thanks for checking and for the data.

> In the state of Florida, where I live, gay sex violates sodomy laws. Our
> laws don't even let married heterosexual couples engage in sodomy. Not only
> is this type of sex illegal, but soliciting illegal sex violates
> solicitation laws. Thus, asking for gay sex or for a gay date that might
> include sex is illegal. Loitering for illicit purposes includes looking for
> partners for illegal sexual activities. Thus, waiting around for a possible
> gay date to show up is also illegal.

It does not follow that a guy asking a guy for a date is going
to engage in sodomy. There are a few more gay male sexual
practices than that and, contrary to popular believe, not all
gay guys screw every time opportunity knocks in any case. So it
does not follow that asking for a date is illegal. Nor does it
follow that the cops can know what someone is loitering for
necessarily. So just standing around is certainly not illegal.
You seem to have a pretty strained concept of law.

And I don't see anything about lesbians at all so I guess we are free and clear. :)

Also, Key West is one of the biggest gay male scenes in the

> These laws are alive and well. Florida forbids unmarried adults from
> sharing a hotel room. The tourism council tried to get this reversed a few
> years ago, but failed. We just had a controversy where Jeb Bush's son was
> caught by police violating the sodomy laws with a female. Since he was not
> charged by police, gay rights activists asked Jeb to pardon gays in jail for
> breaking the same law. This never happened.

Do you really think they enforce this role on unmarried adults
in a hotel room? I can tell you for certain that they do not
unless it is very political. It is really disgusting they would
put people in jail just for consensual sex.

> I know most of these laws seem like something out of the 1800's, but most of
> them have never been officially repealed. When repeals are attempted, the
> religious right objects to the repeal. Even if the law isn't enforced, most
> lawmakers don't want to appear to be encouraging unmarried sexual behavior,
> so they don't vote for the repeals.

And most are almost never enforced. Thankfully.

> I concede that most gays ignore these laws with no consequences, but there
> are gays in jail for nothing more than having gay sex or soliciting for gay
> sex.

Yes, although it is thankfully decreasing.

> Check out <> for more details on these laws. The
> penalties range from life imprisonment, 20 years, 15 years, 10 years, 5
> years, 6 months, 60 days, and a $500 fine. By the way, my state's example
> above have the most lenient laws with only 60 days in jail or a $500 fine.

Life for that? People the barricades! This is too much.

- samantha

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