On Friday, November 30, 2001, at 11:42 AM, Mike Lorrey wrote:
> Chris Russo wrote:
>> Where Jordanian and Syrian governments are in control of the territory,
>> Muslims aren't treated as second-class citizens.
> Incorrect. Jordan booted them (Palestinians) out decades ago in response
> to a coup attempt, and Syria conducted extensive genocides of whole
> palestinian camps and deported the rest to Lebanon. While muslims per se
> are not treated as second class citizens
Which is why what I said is actually correct, and more importantly
relevant to the original contention regarding the less-publicized
occupation of Palestinian land by Syria and Jordan. My friend I
referenced of Palestinian decent, had parents that lived peacefully for
a time in Jordan. Getting back into Jordan for him is a breeze, and
he's treated well. Getting back to his own parents' land in occupied
Palestine is a bitch.
>> Straw man. Who said anything about "kicking in governments"? I'd just
>> like us to get out of the whole area. Leave Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.
>> Let those governments stabilize and defend themselves. If they want
>> help in creating secular democracies, then it's probably worth it for
>> to give them a hand. Currently, though, I don't understand why we're
>> supporting the countries that we are.
> You still have not answered my demand to show where in the US budget we
> are providing any financial aid of any sort to the governments of Saudi
> Arabia or Kuwait (Kuwait, BTW IS a democratic government).
Umm, the Gulf War springs to mind as direct support for Kuwait. Our
military presence in Saudi Arabia speaks volumes to the Arab world. My
Palestinian friend feels that it's obvious that no overthrow of the
Saudi government could ever occur while the ruling family continues to
work with the US. Without the threat of overthrow, the Saudi government
is unlikely to work with its dissenters. I've seen his opinion echoed
by other Arabs I've seen interviewed on television, so I don't see why
showing actual US budget figures has to factor into a matter that's more
one of perception than anything else.
Btw, Kuwait is hardly a democratic government:
- It's referred to as a 'nominal constitutional monarchy'
- Only 10% of its population are allowed to vote
- The executive branch is completely unelected
>>> Liberals always want to have things both ways.
>> Oh, man. I certainly hope that you're not calling me a liberal.
>> fightin' words. I'd characterize myself as a libertarian, or at worst
>> an atheistic conservative.
> With a tendency to apologize for anyone who hates jews.
Wow, what a truly f***ing hurtful thing to say. I guess it hurts most
because I've had some measure of respect for your positions in past
I certainly have better things to do than take this. Conversation over.
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