Re: Life's Lethal Quality Control?

From: Kevin Freels (megaquark@hotmail.com)
Date: Wed Sep 03 2003 - 22:56:26 MDT

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    > Not so -- K-selection vs. R-selection will apply selection pressure
    > particularly if the "elders" of a group contribute significantly
    > to the survival of their children, grand-children, etc. This seems
    > likely to be true in humans, elephants and whales -- though there
    > is still a fair amount of academic debate on this topic.

    Yes, I see your point here. I hadn't considered that. I keep forgetting that
    "social" aspect of our nature. Maybe because I'm reclusive. :-)
    Still, I have to wonder what, if any, contribution "elders" would have that
    were significant enough to increase the likelihood of grand-children
    surviving to reproductive age in the early hunter-gatherer tribes of modern
    humans. The only thing I can think of is to help raise and educate the young
    while the parents were away hunting and gathering. But it is my
    understanding that the sharing of food was an early development in hominid
    evolution and that by the time modern humans arose, the women were most
    likely staying "home with the kids". I may be wrong here and maybe someone
    will accuse me of being a sexist, but that's just what I remember when I was
    researching it years ago. Also, given the social nature of (most)human
    beings, one would think that if a grandparent dies, the rest of the "tribe"
    would pitch in and help raise and protect the child.

    In order for this scenario to work, the death of an "elder" via prostate
    cancer at age 60 would have to have enough impact on a "family" to cause the
    death of a grand-child before they were able to reproduce. This would have
    to happen in the majority or nearly all cases at which time the mutation
    that causes prostate cancer would eventually disappear. If it happened
    occasionally, I don't think it would have enough impact on the mutation to
    make a difference.

    I am under the impression that the average human life span was only 40-50
    years during this time. The most likely causes of death were from diseases,
    not cancers. If this is the case and most cancers occur later in life, then
    it would onlyhave been after the life expantancy of humans began to increase
    when selection pressures would start taking affect on that particular
    mutation. If the mutation that caused that cancer 40-50 thousand years ago,
    it would be well distributed throughout the population before these
    selection pressures began to apply themselves. In the last few hundred
    years, life expectancy has increased by about 25 years which means that it
    would only be during this period when the mutation should start working its
    way out of the population. Today, grandparents rarely play a necessary part
    in the survival of the grandchild except in the death of the parents or such
    similar events. So once again, this mutation should continue to make its way
    through the population. Maybe if parents had children but grandparent raised
    them, we could naturally weed this out in a few tens of thousands of years,
    but for the most part, we try to take care of everyone, even if their
    caretaker passes away.

    Again, it would be very interesting if we could tie these cancers to
    specific mutations and date them.

    The scary part is the intermixing of people. History has shown that people
    breed wherever and whenever possible. Everyone is a hodgepodge of DNA with
    the same mitochondrial DNA dating back to mitochondrial "Eve". Given enough
    time, you would think that most people will carry most of the mutations that
    cause most of the cancers. All humans will be big cancer bags unless we do
    something about it at the genetic level to rid ourselves of these things.

    Also, as human life-spans increase, new ones will undoubtably crop up that
    remained hidden, being secretly passed along to offspring for thousands of
    years, until we reached the age where it started to cause problems.



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