From: Emlyn O'regan (oregan.emlyn@healthsolve.com.au)
Date: Sun Aug 10 2003 - 20:49:32 MDT
The comments below prompt me to ask some more of my irritating questions,
apologies in advance.
It is becoming increasingly unclear to me that what it is to be an extropian
is the same for every extropian. In fact, I think we may hold disjoint sets
of values, and disjoint definitions, in many cases. ie: We may be using the
same word, but in fact have no common ground. I am brought to this by a long
history of reading the list, and in particular by the comment below from
Rafal, and by Robert's assertion that maximising complexity is his guiding
principle in being an extropian.
So my questions is this:
1 - What do you consider to be extropian, or what do you believe it is to be
an extropian?
2 - Do you consider yourself to be an extropian?
3 - If not, why not? Do you hold values which you believe are in conflict
with Extropy? Or is it purely for "I'm a tough non-joiner kinda dude(tte)"
reasons? Or perhaps for PR reasons?
My (personal) answer to the questions above:
1 - I consider the extropian principles to embody what it is to be an
extropian. I believe that they don't have a set of more basic principles
underlying them; they stand as axiomatic. So, I don't feel that a value such
as "maximise complexity" fits as an extropian underpinning. (Actually, I see
"maximise complexity" as being a misconflation of the idea of "extropy is
the opposite of the physics concept of entropy" with what I see as the real
definition of extropy, which is the use of the extropian principles, and
only appeals to the physics concept for colour & movement).
2 - Pretty close to it, but I'm still having trouble comitting, even after
all these years. I guess I'm just a tough, non-joiner kinda dude. Also, the
label "Extropian" makes people immediately think it's some kind of
californian cult (which are after all quite famous around the world), and
when you say "Well, it is from California, but it's not a cult, really",
people begin nodding slowly backing away, making no sudden movements, you
know the drill.
I am very close to it, though. What I have found is that, largely informed
by some years of participation on this list (omg), I find I am, if anything,
a strong individualist; I believe in the supremacy of the individual over
that of the group, holding that latter only exists to support the former. I
don't think I'm a libertarian, however. I support many "groupthink" agenda
items, such as publicly funded medicine, education, and welfare, as support
for the individual.
My personal view is that the extropian principles are all informed by, and
can be derived from, strong Invidualism, which is why I like them. Actually,
perpetual progress is a sticking point... I'm not sure on that one. I like
it (!!), but I'm not sure why. I think I'm a techno utopian at heart; I
believe technology is what it is to be human, and that its progression
enriches us (as individuals, in aggregate).
3 - Urm, see my answer to 2.
Emlyn
> My
> guess is that this is igniting a class war, fiercer then any
> this nation has
> yet
> seen.
>
> ### The sooner the better. Useless drones should die.
>
> Rafal
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