From: natashavita@earthlink.net
Date: Wed Aug 06 2003 - 07:59:46 MDT
Mike and James, this thread has gotten off topic. Can you please move it
off list?
Thank you,
Natasha
On Mon, Aug 04, 2003 at 12:23:29PM -0700, Mike Lorrey wrote:
>
> --- James <james@lab6.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 31, 2003 at 05:44:24PM -0700, Mike Lorrey wrote:
> > > i) Terrorists will be dealthly afraid of setting foot in the US.
> >
> > Do you really think the biggest threats are things you can shoot at?
>
> Tell me: Do you think, if just ONE law abiding citizen were carrying
> concealed on each of the planes on 9/11, that that heinous event would
> even have happened? No, it wouldn't.
*Possibly* not, but again, I don't think this kind of terrorism is a big
threat, personal-riskwise.
> >
> > I feel far less safe than ever before, and no amount of heavy
> > weaponry secreted about my person can protect me from things like
> > loss of civil
> > liberties, media consolidation/absence, big government, monopolies,
> > lawyers, religion, ignorance, apathy, luddism,... you know the story.
>
> Why do you think you have a 2nd Amendment right? Because it is to
> provide you with a defense, last ditch, against loss of civil
> liberties, big government, etc.
I actually don't have a 2nd amendment right since I don't live in the
USA, and I'm sure this argument has happened a million times in gun
circles that I don't frequent, but I'll say it anyway: last ditch is too
late.
> You can defend yourself against these threats, but only if you are
> actually willing to do so. Many people lack the frame of mind necessary
> to self defense, especially against abstract threats. The bad guys
> don't need to be shooting at you to have already initiated force
> against you.
This is exactly my point. After 9/11, civil liberties were cut down. Did
you use force against that? When the threat is abstract, how can you
tell whether or not to use force? If the government doubled income tax,
would you shoot anyone? If you believe in a slippery slope towards
totalitarianism, at what point on that slope do you stop lobbying and
start firing?
> When the opposition outlaws your existence, they have
> loosed the dogs of war, for they have authorized the use of the state
> police apparatus to use force against you. The only rational response
> to such an initiation of force is to respond with force.
I'm still thinking "too late". Are you seriously talking about having a
shootout with the police/army?
-- James <james@lab6.com> <http://james.lab6.com> -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ .
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