From: Lee Corbin (lcorbin@tsoft.com)
Date: Sun Aug 03 2003 - 19:48:30 MDT
Robert writes
> On Sun, 3 Aug 2003, Lee Corbin (commenting on my comments) wrote:
>
> > Ah, yes, but as I've pointed out many many times, we
> > use our intuitions of having to *move* rather than
> > *copy* and then project this limitation onto our future
> > selves and onto advanced technologies themselves!
>
> Lee, this is a fundamental flaw in the consideration of the
> behavior of advanced civilizations -- particularly if they
> are "tightly integrated" as an "uploaded" civilization might
> be. The problems are that (a) you have access to the entire
> knowledge base of the civilization at vary high bandwidth
> (so this is a "wealth" of knowledge).; and (b) it looks like
> a solar system can contain something like 2^50 bits of
> information -- this can get even more complex if one "overloads"
> terms.
Listen, as hard as it will be---I admit---to broadcast
information, that pales in comparison to the difficulty
of moving it. You aren't making any sense, are you?
> I have yet to see anyone propose a reasonable scheme for
> sending 2^50 bits across interstellar distances. I just
> don't think it is going to be easy -- and if it is "easy"
> it seems likely that it is going to be expensive (in terms
> of energy, mass, etc.)
Yes, so (as we agree in the subsequent part of your email),
eventually the "stay at homes" could fall behind technologically.
> Thought question: "How much of yourself (mental, physical, etc.)
> would you sacrifice colonize a new star system?". And before you
> answer, read a little bit about the misadventures of the Donner Party.
Their story is old hat. Why does anything need to be
sacrificed: what stays here stays here, and I transmit
as much as possible (copying, *not* moving) of myself
to the least amount of matter than we have to send to
constitute a receiver.
> But it doesn't matter. Alligators cannot live where
> lions live and lions cannot live where alligators live.
> We live in the hazardous (stupid) part of the universe
> and those more advanced than us live elsewhere.
But you have not explained why creatures more advanced
than we are could not be living right here. Yes, suppose
that 5 billion light years ago and 4 billion ly away, a
colonization began, and that outside our galaxy reside
the most advance portion of that diaspora. Still, *here*,
there is plenty of energy going to waste! Some parts of
them would be here, and using that energy, even if it was
not up to the speeds achievable outside the galaxy.
Lee
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