Re: Food labels and consumer information (was Re: Protesters swarm Calif. biotech meeting)

From: Brett Paatsch (paatschb@optusnet.com.au)
Date: Tue Jul 01 2003 - 20:28:48 MDT

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    Mike Lorrey writes:
    > --- Brett Paatsch <paatschb@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
    > >
    > > Rafal Smigrodzki writes:
    > > > ### ....Of course, the effectiveness of the legal system is
    > > > impaired by the fact that the state owns and operates
    > > > courts, instead allowing private courts to operate and
    > > > compete.
    > > > So you have slow, expensive courts bound by
    > > > statutes and regulations, but this is just another argument for
    > > > the free market.
    > >
    > > I don't see how the free market can be given unfettered free
    > > range without destroying itself. Like a fire that doesn't stay
    > > in the fireplace, but burns the house down.
    >
    > How, exactly, would it destroy itself?

    I'm using free in the widest sense of the word where
    essentially the strong holders of capital are free to exploit
    the weak providers of minimal cost labour across national
    borders if they so choose.

    Labor, especially unskilled labor can be purchased by large
    multinations essentially anywhere in the world. Capital is pretty
    portable. Multinationals can regime shop for the best tax and
    cost of production packages from a variety of governments that
    want to attrack investment and even in free countries create
    jobs for the locals and increase their chance of being elected.

    Essentially the problem is that in a global system capital flows
    far more easily that labor. The market is free but only is some
    respects. And unless labour can move from one country to
    another with relative ease the labor market is not free.

    And this means that cheap labor in say the US cannot compete
    on price with cheap labor in say Malaysia. The States will quite
    rightly in my view insist of safety standards for its workers and
    this lifts the cost of the workforce. In countries where a injured
    worker is essentially just tossed aside for another the labor
    force is cheap.

    I guess my point in nutshell is, in the absence of giving labor
    the ability to wander across any borders they wish to get the
    work they'd be willing to do at the price they'd be willing to
    do it, which would see immigration to the west in sqillions,
    the next best thing is to ensure that minimal safety standards
    (for one thing) are a cost all countries have to bear so that
    labor competes on a level playing field.
     
    > >
    > > Seem to me that some of the problems of globalis[ation]
    > > arise because the free market is expected to work without
    > > the rule of law being established first. The free market may
    > > allow slavery, human rights abuses (safe work environment
    > > etc) and the removal of the forms of institution that give
    > > societies order if it is not checked to some extent. Imo
    > > anyway, I'd be interested to see how an alternative view
    > > might run.
    >
    > A free market would not allow slavery, ipso facto.

    I'm probably using a wider interpretation of free market than
    you had in mind. For the most part I am for as much freedom
    as possible. I'm pretty much a libertarian. But occassionally
    competition just makes for waste.

    > If workers are not free to leave employment, they are not
    > in a free market.

    Agreed and in the global cheap labour market, the cheap
    labor is not free to move to any country it likes.

    > It is, however, the responsibility of employees to determine
    > their own best long term rational self interest. In areas where
    > exploitation of ignorance is possible by capital, collective
    > bargaining via unions is a legitimate and libertarian means of
    > raising up the awareness of the proletariat so that they can
    > act as self-responsible individuals.
    >
    > It is rather obvious that those in our economy left most
    > ignorant are those educated by the state apparatus. Whether
    > this be at the hands of mercantilists looking to exploit or
    > socialists looking to launch revolution (probably a bit of both),
    > it is also rather obvious that even in the area of education,
    > free markets produce the highest quality products and have
    > the happiest workers.

    I'm not sure but I think you are thinking of the US as the market
    whereas I am thinking of a global market place. In the second
    there is no US constitution protecting most of the population.

    And there can be strong commercial pressures for superfunds
    chasing the best return on investment and multinationals seeking
    the cheapest locations to construct their products to seek
    out manufacturing locations where the protections of the US
    constitution don't apply.

    Now if this is pushed to far the US unskilled workers find they
    can't get work. But they can still vote (including voting themselves
    money). My point is eventually this can destabilise even a country
    like the US.

    Brett Paatsch



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