From: Brett Paatsch (paatschb@optusnet.com.au)
Date: Mon Jun 16 2003 - 03:05:52 MDT
I agree with Harvey below, but feel a little sorry for E_Shaun.
I wonder if it would be worth having a once weekly meta posting
that explicitly brings the list rules to the attention of everybody.
Sure its repetitious but it could be more efficient overall.
Subject line might read something like this.
META: List protocols and bulletin messages. Last updated xx/xx/xx
Newbies get to see the META and its easy to refer them and each
other to gently if it appears weekly. (I suspect the list rules may be a
tad too hard to find -not quite in our face enough). Seeing the Subject
line Meta message above may be reminder enough for those of
us who have read its contents.
But here is another aspect. If Natasha (as ExI President) or E_Shaun
or someone on the board *wants* to issue a bulletin statement either
relating to list *health* or otherwise, this meta line, being accompanied
by a late update date, flags to the regulars that it has new content and
they should actually read it again as the content has changed.
As a supplementary idea.
If we want to get real creative we might include some short hand
symbols defined in the bulleting next to a legend.
Eg
<AH-P> Meaning an ad hominem has been *perceived* by the
reader and no further response will be made than to insert <AH-P>
under the offending line. This gives the person who may have
not really *meant* to be offensive the chance to reconsider and
restate. Ie. They get less ambiguous feedback then being ignored.
(Who can tell if a message has even been read) its hard to snub
or shun effectively on a list. Newbies, then might wonder what
<AH-P> means and investigate, but they won't conclude that
no acknowledgement means acceptance of the charge.
<SM-P> Straw man perceived.
<IA-P> Incorrect attribution perceived
etc ...
Just some thoughts.
Regards,
Brett Paatsch
----- Original Message -----
From: "Harvey Newstrom" <mail@HarveyNewstrom.com>
To: "Extropians@Extropy. Org" <extropians@extropy.org>
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 1:29 PM
Subject: META: Time to enforce the List Rules!
> We seem to have forgotten about the list rules. During recent discussions
> about how to "fix" the list, I realized that it isn't broken. We simply
> aren't following the rules or keeping the promises we have made when we
> subscribed to the list.
>
> Specifically, personal attacks, libelous statements, ad hominem, character
> attacks, and insults are already disallowed. We have all promised not to
> use these tactics on the list. Even those who believe that one or more of
> these tactics should be allowed have promised not to utilize them within
> this forum.
>
> Furthermore, we have all agreed not to defend ourselves on-line when
> attacked. We have unanimously agreed that in the interest of improving
the
> list signal-to-noise ratio that we will divert all personal defenses
offlist
> to e_shaun@extropy.org for an off-line resolution. Even if someone tries
to
> start a personal battle, it should end right there with the response going
> off-line.
>
> Lastly, even if the participants of the battle insist on fighting in
public,
> the rest of us do not need to put up with it. It only takes a single
> request to e_shaun@extropy.org to request that the list rules to be
> enforced. If nobody makes a complaint, it implies that we unanimously
want
> the personal attacks to be allowed.
>
> I have reviewed the list rules again and intend to start obeying them
again.
> I will stop responding to baseless accusations or trying to defend myself,
> but will merely send a request to e_shaun@extropy.org to enforce the
> existing list rules. This is what the list rules require. This is what
we
> have all promised to do. I intend to start keeping my promise to obey the
> list rules. I encourage others to do the same.
>
> --
> Harvey Newstrom, CISM, CISSP, IAM, IBMCP, GSEC
> Certified InfoSec Manager, Certified IS Security Pro, NSA-certified
> InfoSec Assessor, IBM-certified Security Consultant, SANS-cert GSEC
> <HarveyNewstrom.com> <Newstaff.com>
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
> L I S T R U L E S
>
> We have a few rules about how you interact with the list. Your continued
> subscription indicates your acceptance of these rules. We do not like
> rules for their own sake. The List rules are just those we believe will
> keep the level of discussion high and polite.
>
> PERSONAL ATTACKS: We do not allow personal attacks or libelous statements.
> Those violating this rule may be removed from the List without notice.
> Those guilty of an ad hominem attack (i.e.: attacking the character of a
> poster rather than combating the argument the poster proffers) will be
> subject to a private warning on a first offense and a temporary or
permanent
> ban on each subsequent offense. Extropy Institute's Executive Team will
> determine the duration of said ban.
>
> If someone attacks your character, insults you, or otherwise violates the
> above rule, do NOT retaliate in like manner. Instead, send us a complaint
> (to e_shaun@extropy.org) and take the matter off-list.
>
> COPYRIGHT: It is a violation of our Rules and United States law to copy
> material from copyrighted sources and post them to the List. Short
excerpts
> and summaries are fine. Repeated violators of this rule may be
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of
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>
> Thank you for your cooperation in making the Extropians List a stimulating
> and
> enjoyable forum.
>
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