From: Paul Grant (shade999@optonline.net)
Date: Sat Jun 14 2003 - 10:08:02 MDT
> "Paul Grant" <shade999@optonline.net> Wrote:
>
> > Most of the hijackers were not Palestinians So what you
> mean to say is
> >that coming to the aid of your allies (in this case fellow
> muslims)
> >is Wrong
>
> What I'm saying is that thinking 911 helped Palestinians is
> stupid and that thinking the main reason Muslims hate
It brought out the current policies to light, didn't it?
Sure, it took *two* years before anyone in the US media
had the balls to bring up these issues, but finally they're
discussing it... And just to be accurate; Arab's don't hate
Americans so much as American policy and this
administration.
> Americans more than they love life is because of alleged
> mistreatment of a people they've never seen is baloney.
First off, its not alleged. There's documented proof all
over the place of Israeli's human rights violations....
And Second, you don't know Arabic people very well;
'cause if you did, you would know, that unlike American's,
Arabs are very emotional. And so far as it relates to Islam,
Islam is a brotherhood, and ALL muslims are troubled when
one of them is attacked.
The direct equivalent of what you're saying btw, can be
extended to NY; why should any of the other states
(whose populace has not met a NYer or been to NYC)
care about 911 then?
> > And before 911, the status quo was good?
>
> No, the Islamic leaders America supported were brainless
> thugs, the Islamic leaders America opposed were brainless
> thugs too. Islam has had nothing but brainless thugs leading
> them for 800 years and some would like to blame America for that too..
So then let them democratically elect their brainless thugs than :)
And I gaurantee you they will be religious based...
Stop interfering.
> > And how did you manage to equate fundamentalism with wanting
> > Americans dead?
>
> By listening to their words, such as that great man of peace
> and religious tolerance Osama bin Laden:
>
> "Jihad is allowed against infidels like the Jews, Christians
> and atheists"
Actually, he's right; technically Jihad is open to everyone :)
It is however, a defensive action... so if you can't see the
blood staining your hands, I could see why you would confuse
it with religious crap. Others do see that blood, however.
> " Our enemy, the target -- if God gives Muslims the
> opportunity to do so- is every American male"
>
> "The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies--civilians
> and military-- is an individual duty for every Muslim who
> can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it"
First, thats one fundamentalist party leader (of which there
are many); Second, that are moderate "fundamentalist" party
leaders that don't agree with him and declared his jihad to
be wrong... Ergo my point that equating fundamentalism and an
American body count is not a valid 1-to-1 mapping...
Second, in his eyes, and his followers eyes, you're killing
off their people. Plain and simple. If you don't have a problem
going to war for your people, why shouldn't they be able to follow
your logic?
> And 911 proved he's not just talk too.
Yuppers, I agree. All the more reason to fix the policies
I mentioned earlier
> > Sure, go ahead, pick a fight with a people
>
> We didn't pick a fight with anyone,
You do when you support Israel, and call it your ally.
Remember your little quid-pro-quo, how could we not
come to the aid of our ally? Well, you've declared openly
that Israel and the US are allies... So *why* would you be
so flabberghasted when you get attacked?
> we didn't ram airliners
> into skyscrapers, they did, and now they would do well to
> remember that Islam has not won a war with the west or even a
> battle in centuries.
But ya did get your ass spanked in Vietnam :) No offense intended to
vietnam vets (for whom I have a great deal of respect for persevering
in a VERY difficult situation).
> >Pretty much all they want you to do is stop fucking with them.
>
> Bullshit.
At least this time, you can't feign (understable given the US
mentality and level of education in unadulterated historical context)
complete ignorance of the situation. Besides, EVERYBODY in the world
recognizes your (our, sadly) strategy now. Be prepared for a more
stiff political environment.
Or as an AI theorist said it best, in uncertain games,
the best strategy to employ is Tit for Tat.
omard-out
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