From: Mike Lorrey (mlorrey@yahoo.com)
Date: Mon May 26 2003 - 08:36:22 MDT
--- Samantha Atkins <samantha@objectent.com> wrote:
> On Saturday 24 May 2003 06:15 pm, Damien Sullivan wrote:
> > On Sat, May 24, 2003 at 10:24:22AM -0700, Ramez Naam wrote:
> > > Sure, as a member of a modern society there are freedoms I give
> > > up, but the freedoms I gain more than compensate.
> >
> > There's negative liberty -- freedom from constraints imposed by
> > other people -- and positive liberty -- what you can actually do.
> > To maximize negative liberty avoid other people or be a tyrant.
> > No, just avoid people -- tyrants have constraints if they want to
> > stay a tyrant. But there are a lot of things you can do in a
> > Western society you can't do off in the wilderness.
> >
>
> And interesting but somewhat strange formulation. Freedom does not
> require lack of constraints. Reality itself imposes constraints on
> what one is free to do including the reality of living among others.
>
> There are rights consistent with freedom. These rights are negative
> rights, rights to non-interference from others unless you interfere
> with them. But lack of constraints is a real world impossibility.
>
> That one can accomplish more in a relatively complex/advanced culture
> than in isolation is true but not particulary a sign of more freedom
> per se.
I happen to agree with Samantha here. Capabilities created by society
tend to be classified as priviledges rather than rights, like the
privilege to operate a motor vehicle on improved surfaces, which would
no exist in a state of nature.
This is not to say I agree entirely with this formulation, as I tend to
apply Aristotle's formulation of rights, one of which says that since
man was created bereft of fang, claw, or sting, just the hand, that any
device wielded by it is his natural right. Therefore man, being evolved
as a technological animal, has a right to use technology as he/she
pleases.
Where the rubber meets the road is exactly that: I have a natural right
to use my motor vehicle, while whoever owns the road has a right to
make sure, from a liability standpoint, that I am capable of acting
responsibly on that road, and bar me from trespass if I am not. This is
the point of intersection of two natural rights held by different entities...
=====
Mike Lorrey
"Live Free or Die, Death is not the Worst of Evils."
- Gen. John Stark
Blog: Sado-Mikeyism: http://mikeysoft.blogspot.com
Flight sims: http://www.x-plane.org/users/greendragon/
Pro-tech freedom discussion:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exi-freedom
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