From: gts (gts_2000@yahoo.com)
Date: Fri May 23 2003 - 00:07:23 MDT
Lee Daniel Crocker wrote:
>> This is akin to the "progressivist perspective," which Diamond flatly
>> rejects.
>
> Only because he focuses on a small portion of history and a
> few effects and totally sweeps the rest under the rug. Sure,
> early agriculture wasn't an immediate success, and the
> evidence of that is good. As he points out, the life
> expectancy of hunter-gatherers was 26, while that of early
> agriculurists fell to 19. Well, OK, but last time I looked
> we've moved forward a bit since then.
Daimond also points out that modern agricultural Greeks and Turks still have
not regained the stature they had in prehistoric times.
If calcium from dairy is so important to the diet then how is it that
prehistoric humans were taller and with stronger bones than moderns? Similar
results can be found in human remains here in N. America, where native
Americans switched from HG lifestyles to agricultural lifestyles.
> But [Ag] did enable things like
> specialization, trade, mass education, large-scale
> construction, and everything else that got us a lot further
> than those early agriculturalists.
Depends on what you mean by "a lot further." If you mean "closer to a
greater probability of imminent extinction due to environmental holocausts
of one kind of another" then I certainly won't disagree. :)
This discussion is interesting because Diamond presents a view that is in
some ways opposite to extropianism. Extropianism is sympathetic to
progressivism and Diamond rejects progressivism. Forgive my blasphemy for
arguing his point of view.
> And those first few
> plagues killed off enough that those left (and we, their
> descendents) are likely better adapted to the new lifestyle.
True, but then those plague victims would likely not have lived in the first
place had we not developed agriculture and all social trappings that go
along with it. Plagues flourish only because we live in concentrated cities,
made possible by agriculture.
-gts
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Fri May 23 2003 - 00:18:16 MDT