From: Greg Burch (gregburch@gregburch.net)
Date: Sun May 11 2003 - 10:01:39 MDT
Caveat: I haven't read more than a few words in this thread, so my
comments may be redundant or otherwise annoying...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-extropians@extropy.org
> [mailto:owner-extropians@extropy.org] On Behalf Of Mike Lorrey
>
> This is a rather inane and meaningless question. First off
> are these rather unsupported assumptions that hunters:
> a) are able to objectively determine which are 'the strongest deer'
> b) are so blessed with deer encounters that they can pick and
> choose which one to shoot
> c) gain some benefit from shooting 'the strongest deer',
>
> among others...
>
> Since it seems I am the only actual deer hunter who is
> participating in this discussion, and likely know far more
> other deer hunters than all others on this list combined,
The former is likely true, but I can probably stand as the example that
at least challenges the latter :-)
> I'll tell you what motivates deer
> hunters:
>
> a) there is a deer to shoot at. Many hunters go for years
> without spotting even one deer. With 'bucks only' hunting
> seasons, the odds are that most deer a hunter encounters are
> not legal targets, since they tend to breed more does than
> bucks. While deer populations are generally higher due to
> wildlife management than even during colonial times, deer
> have evolved, due to hunting pressures, to be far smarter and
> more sensitive than their ancestors.
This comes from an East Coast woods-hunter. In Texas, it's a LOT
different. We've got basically two huge, rich habitats for deer hunting
(that cover well over 3/4 of the state) and both are so utterly infested
with deer that even the least talented hunters get to be -- and most
definitely ARE -- "choosy." The simple fact of the matter is that
hunters don't kill nearly enough deer in Texas and they are more or less
pests in the state from an ecological perspective. As a result of this
and the breeding pressure that such a large population entails (pun
intended, for the cognoscenti), there's a significant culture of
"trophy" hunting among Texas deer hunters. People seek out either fine
specimens from an aesthetic or sporting standpoint, a good source of
meat (i.e. BIG) or both.
> b) the hunter is able to get a shot at a deer. Deer, being
> agile, camouflaged, and many times more sensitive than humans
> (they can hear you walking through dry leaves from several
> hundred yards away, can spot the blue dyes in most clothing
> like neon signs, and can smell human body and technology
> odors from dozens of yards or more away), a hunter rarely has
> more than a few seconds to get a shot off.
>
> As I have said before, few hunters are so skilled and
> talented that they are regularly able to pick and choose
> their targets. The sort of hunts you see on the Outdoors
> Channel are typically on enclosed game preserves and are not
> typical of hunting in open wilderness, and the hunters
> depicted are typically the most talented around. The odds of
> meeting a hunter like this are approximately that of getting
> a World Cup soccer player at a pickup game at your local
> park, perhaps even worse.
>
> The only time I know of that regular hunters have the
> opportunity to be choosy is if the area they hunt in has a
> part of the hunting season open to shooting does. In such
> situations, the hunter would seek to shoot the largest doe, a
> doe which has generally already bred for several seasons and
> has therefore already spread whatever positive genetic
> characteristics she may posess.
The latter is true to an extent, but most hunters in Texas will get a
buck of some kind if that's what they're after, simply because deer are
so numerous. The regulation of the ratio of bucks to does is part of
the state game management plan, and a subject of constant discussion
among hunters -- who have an interest in a vital, healthy deer
population.
Beyond this there is the significant factor of planned deer breeding
that is now a major activity in Texas. Dozens and dozens of programs
(all that I know of being private) across the state are engaged in
long-term programs to improve the stock of game animals. As a result,
the size and health of the deer taken even by the average hunter in
Texas has gone up steadily in my lifetime.
> This brings my to my last objection to Mr Jordan's rants. Any
> deer which he might consider to be a 'trophy' animal is a
> fully mature animal, generally about 5 years old. Such an
> animal has already reproduced for several seasons and
> therefore whatever beneficial genetic characteristics it
> posesses have been spread to the herd already. Thus, the
> claim that hunting trophy animals specifically somehow
> dilutes the genetic properties of the herd is patently absurd.
BINGO! This fundamental truism is based on the confluence of
game-animal breeding behavior and hunter psychology, plus the more
recent programs of intentional herd management. There are thousands of
pages written about this every year in the hunting press, with lots of
fine gradations of opinion, but the core dynamic is well understood. By
the time an animal has become "trophy-class," he's spread his genes
around a LOT. Harvesting him at that point actually then adds to the
genetic diversity of the overall herd pool.
> Because it is so opportunistic, evolution causes the stupid
> animals to be preyed, thus creating selective pressure for
> greater intelligence.
No question about that. I'm a far better hunter now than I was 20 years
ago, but the deer are DEFINITELY smarter, bigger and faster!
Greg Burch
Vice-President, Extropy Institute
My blog: http://gregburch.net/burchismo.html
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