RE: Modafinil (was CRON Diet problems)

From: matus@matus1976.com
Date: Thu May 08 2003 - 23:51:03 MDT

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    > matus@matus1976.com wrote,
    > > "The development of modafinil brings to light a crucial social question.
    > > What would be the impediment for its use, if a compound such as
    > > modafinil is
    > > more like caffeine than amphetamine in terms of safety, and yet, as
    > > effective as the amphetamines?"
    > >
    > > from - http://www.modafinil.info
    > >
    > > I would suggest contemplating trying modafinil (aka Provigil). This has
    > > been mentioned on the list before, its probably the 1st drug that taken
    > > regularly could reduce the need and desire for sleep. I have
    > > been taking it
    > > for some time now, and find it quite effective. If you are
    > looking for a
    > > way to stay awake and alert throughout the day, this might be an optimal
    > > choice.
    > >
    >
    >
    > I would be very interested in hearing your experiences with this.
    > How many
    > hours do you sleep per day while on this drug? How do you feel? Have you
    > noticed any fatigue, mental dullness, or lack of physical energy?
    > For what
    > purpose are you taking this drug; to reduce the number hours of sleep
    > required, or to combat sleepiness during the day?
    >

    I have been taking this off and on for probably about four months now. For
    about a month straight, I was working a 40 hour/week daytime job, a 20 hour
    per week evening job, and another 10 - 20 hours on personal projects.
    During this time, my typical day consisted of working from 7am to 5 pm
    (including commute), then 3 - 4hours each evening from home on the computer,
    then 2 - 3 hours on project work. Another hour or two of miscellaneous
    computer work, and I would hit the sack around 3 - 5 am. Getting up at 7
    again the next morning. 1 100mg modafinil tab kept me awake and alert
    throughout the 8 hour workshift, even kept me up during boring corporate
    meetings in stuffy board rooms that would normally knock me out even with a
    full nights sleep. Taking only 1 pill per day in this manner I would
    usually end up 1 evening each week taking a 2 or 3 hour nap. Before taking
    modafinil, I would be very tired throughout the day even with a good 7 - 8
    hours of sleep each night, often having trouble staying awake during
    meetings and on the drive home (very dangerous, I highly recommend anyone
    who has trouble staying awake driving to pull over right away, its the
    leading cause of vehiclular accidents and death behind chemical alterations
    AFAIK)

    My 40hour week job ended, and I discontinued this pattern, taking it only on
    late nights or long drives. For these, it is phenomenal at keeping one
    awake, and causes no jitteryness or loss of memory or shortening attention
    span like caffiene does.

    Recently my various work has required more time, and I decided to try the
    modafinil every 8 hours, which is what is required to singificanly impact
    the need for sleep (taking 1 each day, I still seemed to require a little
    bit of 'catch up' sleep, though not as much as if I was taking none at all).
    For two weeks I was taking it every 8 hours, and going on less than four
    hours a sleep each night, pulling 2 all nighters in that time. As far as I
    could tell, none of this impacted me negatively, some of the following
    mornings I was doing heavy physical labor helping a friend clear a lot where
    he is building a new house, which including cutting down trees with
    chainsaws and various other rather dangerous work when going on very little
    sleep, my ability to perform these functions did not appear to be affected
    whatsoever. My non-extropic friend was quite surprised to hear of my lack
    of sleep for the previous week.

    Unfortunately, I ran out of pills. Modafinil is not a cheap drug, without
    health insurance coverage itll run you ~$5.00 per pill. Before my 2 week
    experiement and post my hectic 70hour schedule I resolved to take it only
    while doing productive things. No staying up all night watching the history
    channel or playing video games. I was interested in seeing it run out so I
    could again compare my modafinil behavior with my regular behavior, I became
    much more aware of the normal daytime drowsiness and sleepyiness I would
    feel two or three times each day without any modafinil. I experience no
    daytime sleepiness while using it.

    The major clinical studies done on this which produced significant sleep
    reduction were 200mg every 8 hours for days on end, this would amount to $30
    per day modafinil habit. Perhaps if I was in a higher income bracket I
    could normally swing this. Those studies reported individuals going 2 or 3
    days straight with no sleep, no concentration problems, and no jitterness or
    microsleep episodes. With just 1 100mg tablet every 8 hours, I could pretty
    much cut my sleep requirements in half, with no ill effects (that I know
    of). I plan on expirmenting with using other, cheaper stimulates (caffiene
    primarily) to boost my wakefullness during my normal wakefull hours, and
    hopefully have nearly the same effect as the 3 100 mg tabs every 8 hours,
    but go on 2 100mg tabs and 1 200mg caffiene tabs, then sleeping 4 hours. I
    did find I could have pulled more all nighters during my 3 tab per day
    trial, but pyschologically I become *very* unmotivated during some of those
    late evenings, I think I needed to have a psychological seperation between
    the days, and would be perfectly willing to get right up 4 hours later and
    put another 12 - 16 hours into whatever I needed to do that day.

    I did not seem to experience any negative mental effects, seemed just as
    able to remember old things and learn new things. My phsycial energy seemed
    fine as well, no less than normal (aside from sleepiness, physical energy in
    reference to capability to do something before muscle tiring or exhaustion)
    Although I would note that the general feeling of fatigued body and muscles
    was present, but just barely. Its hard to explain, its like staying up a
    day straight and working hard, then getting 2 - 4 hours a sleep, and having
    to get up again. The exhaustion and lack of concentration was not there on
    modafinil, but there was some 'remnant' achyness and soreness, though not
    significant. Im not sure if this would build up with continual use, and the
    extent of this seemed to diminish to barely noticable to my 2 week 3 tab/day
    trial. It was much more noticable during my initial usage, the 1 tab/day
    while working 70 hours per week.

    To answer your purposefullness question, you hit my two primary reasons. I
    would like to require less sleep, as I see we spend 1/3rd of our lives
    sleeping, needing less sleep would result in a practical life extension,
    increasing my number of subjective wakefull people hours experienced. I
    noticed this accutely when I realized half of my wakefull hours saw my
    girlfriend asleep, and I realized how much I was doing while she was
    sleeping. Over the two week period, I experienced probably 3 more days of
    awake time than she did. However, as I noted, I seemed to often need a
    psychological seperation between the days, though this may be something
    someone could overcome. If not a practical reduction in sleep needs, at the
    very least, this would help to keep me awake and alert throughout the day
    when I would normally experience many boughts of drowsiness. Admittedly It
    would be better if I was in better shape, and combining optimal health with
    modifinl might result in a significant reduction in required sleep time.
    One may need the continued 200mg 3times /day dosage to singificantly reduce
    required sleep, but I dont know what the extended long term consequences of
    this would be. I did experience a few seconds on two different occurances
    during my two week trial of wakefull hullicinations, no idea if this would
    get worse with a higher dosage / less sleep.

    Modafinil is a strange drug, it doesnt *keep* you awake like caffiene and
    other stimulants and you can sleep while taking it regularly, if you want
    to. It seems to reduce the bodies demand for sleep, but will not keep you
    from sleeping.

    My girlfriend, who due to a Thyroid disorder, normally requires 8 - 10 hours
    sleep now regularly gets 6 - 8 hours and takes 1/2 of a 100mg tablet each
    day. She also reports that modafinil acts as a mild appetite suppressent
    (cant say if it had this affect on me) and a mild mood enhancer.

    Thus concludes my very subjective single data point clinical trial of
    Modafinil. Hope that helps in your decision to use / not use modafinil.

    Michael Dickey



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