From: gts (gts_2000@yahoo.com)
Date: Fri Apr 18 2003 - 00:20:57 MDT
mez,
Thanks, I think I understand now what you and Diamond mean. Correct me if
I'm wrong but I think you mean that humans have a large and often
destructive *impact on their environments*, but that at least with respect
to hunting this impact is not really evidence of a "destructive nature," per
se, where "destructive nature" is roughly synonymous with "deliberately
vandalistic nature."
If that is correct then I agree with you and Diamond. Someone ought to
delete that reviewer's book review. It gives a false impression of Diamond,
and from my impression of you he deserves better.
-gts
----Original Message----
From: owner-extropians@extropy.org
[mailto:owner-extropians@extropy.org] On Behalf Of Ramez Naam
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 1:33 AM
To: extropians@extropy.org
Subject: RE: evolution and human nature (was: evolution and diet)
> From: gts [mailto:gts_2000@yahoo.com]
>> Yes of course, the tendency to warfare and violence is part
>> of human nature then and now. Again I was objecting only to
>> the idea that the naive hunting of a species to extinction is
>> evidence of that destructive nature. Are you really
>> suggesting Diamond thinks it is? Or are you stating that the
>> amazon reviewer was flatly mistaken to call it Diamond's
>> view? I'm sorry your message is not very clear to me in this respect.
>
> I think the Amazon reviewer was twisting Diamond's view.
>
> It's tough for me to give a simple response because the word
> "destructive" just strikes me as imprecise in this case (and I think
> would strike Diamond as imprecise as well). A human characteristic
> isn't necessarily destructive in and of itself. In one environment a
> characteristic can be useful and adaptive. In another environment it
> can be dangerous.
>
> Human hunting skills seem to have been just such a trait. In Eurasia
> and Africa, the local animals had co-evolved with humans and
> proto-humans and had thus developed survival traits of their own (like
> fear of humans). The fauna in Australia and the Americas, by
> contrast, had evolved in an environment that lacked humans. So early
> hunters in Australia could literally walk up to a local animal and
> knock it on the head.
>
> So is the human hunting urge destructive? Not really - it was
> necessary for our survival as a species. It was the combination of
> this trait and the spread to a new environment that had lacked
> predators as skilled as us that resulted in the extinction of the
> Australian mega-fauna.
>
> mez
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