From: Mike Lorrey (mlorrey@yahoo.com)
Date: Sun Apr 06 2003 - 21:26:07 MDT
PEACENIK JUSTIFIES PEACE TO WARMONGER
by Mike Lorrey
WM: Why is it that you are protesting against the war?
PN: Because war is wrong.
WM: War is always wrong?
PN: Some think so, but I think there might be some wars that were and
are just.
WM: What sort of wars would you say are just?
PN: Wars to oust unelected tyrants who invade their neighbors and
commit mass murder and genocide, like Hitler.
WM: Really? What other reasons might be just?
PN: If such a leader used chemical or biological weapons on enemies or
on his own people, and tortures and murders political opponents.
WM: But isn't Saddam guilty of all of these things?
PN: Maybe, but you can't take the word of what exiles say, they are
prejudiced.
WM: Why would they be prejudiced?
PN: Because they have been tortured and had their families gassed and
murdered by Saddam, so their opinions are obviously unobjective.
WM: If War on Saddam is so wrong, why did you not protest how the
Clinton administration attacked Iraq, at the height of the Lewinski
scandal?
PN: Because Clinton feels the pain of women and minorities and fuzzy
bunnies and anti-gunners.
WM: That doesn't sound very consistent or principled.
PN: Our principle is that war is wrong unless it is condoned by the
United Nations.
WM: Wasn't WWII not condoned?
PN: The UN didn't exist then, which is why we had to have a war.
WM: But the League of Nations did exist, and specifically passed
resolutions outlawing war, and limiting the weapons nations could
build, among many other things that were not obeyed by Germany and
Japan, who acted much like France, Germany, and Russia have acted today
in preventing the UN or League of Nations from doing anything to avoid
war.
PN: But they did do something, they signed the Munich Pact.
WM: And how well did Germany abide by that?
PN: This is beside the issue. War is still wrong unless it is condoned
by the UN.
WM: So nations do not have any sovereign rights anymore?
PN: They have rights, but only to defend themselves if attacked
directly.
WM: So what is it you don't like about war?
PN: Silly, its because so many people die.
WM: But you say that in order for a nation to defend itself justly,
they must first submit to being attacked directly?
PN: That is right.
WM: So, you are saying that a lot of people, and generally people who
are innocent civilians, must die before a nation can defend itself.
PN: Correct.
WM: So if a criminal comes after you with a weapon, do you have to let
him stab you or shoot you dead before you are justified in defending
yourself?
PN: We don't believe you should defend yourself. Police are there to
protect you.
WM: But in the case of nations, where are the world's policemen, and
how do they decide when to protect someone?
PN: The UN votes, and member nations are then justified in acting.
WM: What happens when some nations with veto power have a vested
commercial interest in vetoing a resolution to do so?
PN: National governments do not act on crass commercial interests.
WM: So the 300 companies that have done business with Saddam's regime
have absolutely no influence in the governments that vetoed Bush's
second resolution?
PN: That is correct.
WM: But don't you claim that Bush is only going to war for oil
interests?
PN: Yes, the Bush administration is controlled by US oil company
interests, and is going to war only to increase their profits.
WM: But the Chirac administration is not controlled by French oil
company interests who actually have contracts in Iraq?
PN: That is correct. France is a far more civilized country.
WM: Now, please tell me how these US oil interests are going to
increase profits from the war.
PN: When the US oil industry controlls Iraq's oil, they will increase
profits.
WM: But if the sanctions against Iraq are lifted, won't they be able to
sell far more oil than they currently are?
PN: Yes, and this will increase US oil company profits.
WM: But if they sell more oil, won't world oil prices go down at a time
when the costs (repairing sabotaged facilities) are going up? Won't
this lead to decreasing profits and cheap oil?
PN: We are never surprised at how oil companies are able to fix prices
to earn more profits and hide income. Just look at Enron.
WM: Hmmm, so the French oil companies would never do such things?
PN: The French are so much more civilized, just look at how they
distain country music.
WM: So, tell me, what are Russias altruistic interests in opposing war.
Are you telling me that it isn't just to hide the fact that they've
been selling night vision technologies, GPS jamming technologies, and
new anti-tank missile technologies, all in violation of UN resolutions?
PN: We accept Russias statements that those were sold before the first
Gulf War.
WM: Despite the fact that the products in question did not even exist
then?
PN: Look, the basic fact is that the US is trying to use its position
as the dominant power in the world to establish an American empire
around the world.
WM: Really, when was the last time we added any territory to the US or
accepted a new state?
PN: The 1940's.
WM: And when the Archbishop of Canterbury accused Colin Powell of such
things at a London news conference, didn't Sec'ty Powell respond, "We
have sent many of our best young men and women around the world over
the years to fight for freedom, and the only land we have ever asked
for in return is enough to bury those that did not return."
PN: The US is the preeminent agressor in the world today, that is a
fact, and has been since the Reagan administration.
WM: Really, just what countries have we agressed against?
PN: Thats easy: Grenada...
WM: Who we freed from a communist coup and Cuban invaders.
PN: Nicaragua...
WM: Where we funded Nicaraguans to fight to demand the communist
Sandinistas honor their commitment to the OAS to establish a
constitution and a pluralistic multi-party electoral system.
PN: Afghanistan...
WM: Where we funded the native people to fight against communist Soviet
invaders.
PN: Panama....
WM: Where we arrested a drug smuggling thug who killed President
Trujillo and refused to recognise the election of his opponent.
PN: Libya...
WM: Whose government was funding and training airline hijackings and
terrorist attacks all over europe and the Mediterranean.
PN: You placed nuclear tipped Pershing II and Tomahawk missiles in
europe...
WM: Which helped win the cold war and freed eastern europe from Soviet
domination.
PN: Somalia...
WM: Under UN auspices, at the request of Somalis, and only to protect
aid workers.
PN: Bosnia...
WM: Uh, there had been a civil war going for several years before we
stepped in and ended the war.
PN: Kosovo...
WM: To end the genocide of albanian Kosovars by the Milosevic
government.
PN: This doesn't prove anything.
WM: Actually, it does prove something. Peaceniks, like yourself, never,
it seems, protest against the unjust acts of fascist tyrants. You
always protest against the just acts of free nations to spread freedom
around the world into areas that are under the iron fisted control of
fascist tyrants. You are the best friend of fascists. You might release
statements about what disagreeable individuals they might be toward
their own people (unless they are good socialist tyrants) but you
never, ever, ever do anything to change the world for the better. You
never take action to free anybody.
You condemn and act against anybody who takes a stand against tyrants.
Whether those tyrants are the tyrannies of foreign governments, or the
domestic tyrannies of paternalistic bureaucracies, excessive taxation,
gun control, luddism and restrictions on technological progress, it is
you who are the opponents of progress.
This is the true irony. Those who most widely claim the title of
"Progressives" act the most against real progress in the world, whether
it is making more of the worlds people free or increasing the quality
and quantity of freedom through technology that people already have.
You are not progressives, you are regressives.
=====
Mike Lorrey
"Live Free or Die, Death is not the Worst of Evils."
- Gen. John Stark
"Pacifists are Objectively Pro-Fascist." - George Orwell
"Treason doth never Prosper. What is the Reason?
For if it Prosper, none Dare call it Treason..." - Ovid
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