Re: META: Greg Burch's request

From: matus (matus@snet.net)
Date: Sat Apr 05 2003 - 10:35:04 MST

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    MaxPlumm Said:
    >> All of these accusations are to some degrees true. However, I do not see
    any perspective given to >> any of these judgments you have passed. For
    instance, the United States "propped up" the regime of >> Syngman Rhee in
    South Korea in 1950. Rhee was certainly an authoritarian and a thug.

    To which Damien sullivan responded:
    > And in 1950 we couldn't know how bad North Korea would turn out to be. So
    we accepted mass murder
    > by our ally

    You miss the point entirely. 1st off, at no point in history do we know
    exactly how the future would turn out, however, everyone was pretty
    confident that communism sucked and democratic capitalism did not. Whether
    history would prove them to be true was yet unknown, but it did in fact
    prove them so. Considering more than 30 million chinese died in the
    cultural revolutions there, the fewer cultural revolutions the better. 2nd,
    as Max is trying to emphasize, it was not a choice between mass murder of
    2,000 people and NO mass murder, it was a choice between mass murder of
    2,000 people and mass murder of 2 MILLION people. To criticize the US for
    supporting a thug but not appluaud it at preventing the enslavement and
    murder of millions of people is rediculous.

    I invite you to read Christopher Hitchens description of North Korea.

    Liberal Author Christopher Hitchens calls North Korea 'The Worst of the
    Worst', it is the worst possible combination of absolute despotism,
    totalitarianism, and state failure. It is a living example of the nightmare
    portrayed in Orwells 1984 and predicted result of runaway nationalization in
    Rand's Atlas Shrugged, he says of North Korea -

    "All films, all books, all newspapers and all radio and television
    broadcasts are about either the Father or the Son[Kim Jong Il]. Everybody is
    a soldier. Everybody is an informer. Everybody is a unit. Everything is
    propaganda...Children are drilled to think of Japanese and Americans, in
    particular, as monstrous...The old justification for the Stalinist
    forced-march system was that at least it led to development. But even in
    Pyongyang, the capital city which is reserved for approved citizens, one can
    see that this excuse doesn't work. Neither does anything else; the place is
    stalled and hungry and subject to constant blackouts. There are no cars on
    the streets; there is no construction except of tawdry shrines to the Holy
    Family. A very small window of dollar bribery has opened up in recent years,
    but there's nothing to buy and no black market. Corruption at the leadership
    level is exorbitant, with palaces and limos and (a special obsession of Kim
    Jong Il's) megalomaniacal movie projects...I saw people scavenging
    individual grains from the fields and washing themselves in open sewers. On
    the almost deserted roads, animals do a good deal of the hauling. Domestic
    pets are nowhere to be seen. Perhaps most have been eaten, for the fact is
    that North Korea is a famine stat...Nobody knows the death toll-the best
    guess is between 1.5 and 2 million-but in addition a generation of
    physically and mentally stunted children has been "fathered" by the "Dear
    Leader." Well-attested rumors of cannibalism have filtered across the border
    to China, where a Korean-speaking minority has lately been augmented by
    refugees so desperate that they will risk shooting in order to brave the
    river. A system where you can't live but you can't leave is the definition
    of hell...deserted towns, empty factories, wandering and neglected children
    and untilled fields...the country's once productive coal mines have been
    allowed to flood, and that there are no pumps that can be brought to bear"
    (from -http://www.chosunjournal.com/worst.html)

    The latest estimates are that the state has killed 2 million people in the
    recent famine. This would make it the worst state killing since Cambodia in
    the 1970s. It would push the total killing by the communist regime since its
    origin to about 4 million people, making communist North Korea the 6th
    greatest killer since 1900.

    Now compare North Korea with South Korea, which started with similiar
    populations nearly identical climates, land area, people, and culture. Yet
    South Korea, which embraced capitalism and democracy at the end of the
    Korean War is now the 11th largest economy in the world, a bustling hub of
    progress and growth which recently hosted the Olympics. North Korea, on the
    other hand, embraced massive statism, it is the only full fledged communist
    state intact, its people are desperately poor and millions have starved to
    death, while factories and fields remain unused and empty it receives
    billions in international aide while maintaining a standing army of 1
    million with artillary constantly aimed at South Korea's capital. A truly
    sad state of affiars.

    If the United States had not supported a 'totalarian thug' which murdered
    2000 of his own people, All the people of South Korea, which numbers 48
    million today, would be living under the same horrific hellish conditions,
    where every year is 1984, that the people of North Korea live under.

    Michael Dickey



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