From: Alex Ramonsky (alex@ramonsky.com)
Date: Thu Apr 03 2003 - 16:50:49 MST
Robert J. Bradbury wrote:
>Can anyone currently subscribed to the ExI list cite
>an actual example where due to the list discussion they
>"changed" their mind?
>
My word, yes. But it's not the actual topics so much as the overall
experience...for one thing, topic drift is a bit rife here at times so
it's difficult to pin points down where you change your mind during a
thread...but...(some examples) I used to believe that a lot of
intelligent people were rather unapproachable if I knew nothing about a
subject, but this list changed my mind...I used to believe that I was
really crap at communicating; this list changed my mind. It's not all
positive; I used to believe that intellectually bright folk were
unlikely to ever be abusive, but that went out the window too...on the
whole, the most important thing is that I've learned a hell of a lot and
all of that has changed my mind. I haven't thanked half of you half as
much as you deserve to be thanked, but consider yourselves thanked : )
>Memes are selfish -- they presumably have self-preservation
>motivations and selection criteria. How in the blazes
>can anyone offering an opinion on the ExI list hope to
>"change" someone elses mind?
>
By making them think. That's how it works.
> Perhaps a way of looking
>at this is that *all* debate/discussion on the ExI list
>is completely futile -- i.e. it is *never* going to
>produce a productive result -- it violates the "perpetual
>progress", "self-transformation" and "practical optimism"
>principles from the get go -- in turn it violates the
>"rational thinking" and "self-direction" principles --
>why engage in arguments (discussions) that you have no
>hope of winning? [Key point being that winning requires
>people shifting meme-sets and they (the meme-sets) are
>going fight to the death to prevent that.]
>
But you learn who's strong enough to be that flexible and who isn't. And
what percentage. And how far they can push it, compared to your own.
> Are many
>of the list discussions taking place under principles
>of fantasy (i.e. that one can ever change another persons'
>"mind" -- e.g. in effect "execute" a meme-set they may have.)
>
>Should the list consider -- "Duh... It feels so good
>when I stop pounding my head against the wall."
>
Only ever stop an argument if nobody's learning anything : )
AR
>
>Robert
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This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Thu Apr 03 2003 - 16:51:19 MST