Re: Changing ones mind

From: Alex Ramonsky (alex@ramonsky.com)
Date: Thu Apr 03 2003 - 16:50:49 MST

  • Next message: Adrian Tymes: "Re: Changing ones mind"

    Robert J. Bradbury wrote:

    >Can anyone currently subscribed to the ExI list cite
    >an actual example where due to the list discussion they
    >"changed" their mind?
    >
    My word, yes. But it's not the actual topics so much as the overall
    experience...for one thing, topic drift is a bit rife here at times so
    it's difficult to pin points down where you change your mind during a
    thread...but...(some examples) I used to believe that a lot of
    intelligent people were rather unapproachable if I knew nothing about a
    subject, but this list changed my mind...I used to believe that I was
    really crap at communicating; this list changed my mind. It's not all
    positive; I used to believe that intellectually bright folk were
    unlikely to ever be abusive, but that went out the window too...on the
    whole, the most important thing is that I've learned a hell of a lot and
    all of that has changed my mind. I haven't thanked half of you half as
    much as you deserve to be thanked, but consider yourselves thanked : )

    >Memes are selfish -- they presumably have self-preservation
    >motivations and selection criteria. How in the blazes
    >can anyone offering an opinion on the ExI list hope to
    >"change" someone elses mind?
    >
    By making them think. That's how it works.

    > Perhaps a way of looking
    >at this is that *all* debate/discussion on the ExI list
    >is completely futile -- i.e. it is *never* going to
    >produce a productive result -- it violates the "perpetual
    >progress", "self-transformation" and "practical optimism"
    >principles from the get go -- in turn it violates the
    >"rational thinking" and "self-direction" principles --
    >why engage in arguments (discussions) that you have no
    >hope of winning? [Key point being that winning requires
    >people shifting meme-sets and they (the meme-sets) are
    >going fight to the death to prevent that.]
    >
    But you learn who's strong enough to be that flexible and who isn't. And
    what percentage. And how far they can push it, compared to your own.

    > Are many
    >of the list discussions taking place under principles
    >of fantasy (i.e. that one can ever change another persons'
    >"mind" -- e.g. in effect "execute" a meme-set they may have.)
    >
    >Should the list consider -- "Duh... It feels so good
    >when I stop pounding my head against the wall."
    >
    Only ever stop an argument if nobody's learning anything : )
    AR

    >
    >Robert
    >
    >
    >
    >
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