POLITICS/WAR: Re: Libertarian theory breaking down

From: Mike Lorrey (mlorrey@yahoo.com)
Date: Mon Mar 24 2003 - 15:05:16 MST

  • Next message: Mike Lorrey: "Re: [WAR/SOCIAL]: Guns and pickup trucks, Iraqis"

    --- Amara Graps <amara@amara.com> wrote:
    > >Amara, while I wouldn't dream of second guessing you on astronomical
    > >matters, I'd hope you'd defer to people who actually have military
    > >experience in such matters as defense.
    >
    > I believe that the landscape of (trans)human lives are much larger
    > than a mudball of some humans acting like monkeys (Bush being the
    > head baboon). I find your view extremely limiting and self-defeating,
    > Mike, ignoring your arrogance for the moment. I wonder if you read
    > any of the articles that Dan posted and my one follow-up.

    Read em all, and found them very academic and with little relation to
    actual military experience, as have several others on the list who have
    posted to me. They are interesting as economic theory, but deal very
    poorly in the essential logistical, tactical, and organizational and
    educational issues which I have posed now and in the past.

    I have, in the past, supported the idea of partisan militia being an
    effective deterrent against even 20th century degrees of military
    technological sophistication in organized state agression. The sort of
    warfare that the US is currently displaying, in Iraq and in
    Afghanistan, could only be opposed by a significant major fraction of
    the native population taking up arms actively. Even then, if the
    agressor did not care about international image or media scrutiny, the
    mobilization of a major fraction of the native population against the
    agression could be easily eliminated by a concerted program of ethnic
    cleansing. This has not never happened, rather, it describes the source
    of many of the genocides of the last two centuries. It is what Stalin
    did to the White Russians, and it is what happened in Rwanda and partly
    happened in Serbia.

    I don't think you, your cited sources, or others appreciate at all how
    dastardly states can get if they want what they want bad enough and are
    fascist enough to be capable and willing of getting it by any means
    necessary.

    >
    > P.S.
    > However there are a few monkeys of a different variety:
    > http://www.omuriqui.hpg.ig.com.br/ingles/index2.htm
    > I wish humans had common ancestors with them
    >
    > P.S.S Your words here are nonsense, you know.
    > >The Soviet experience in Afghanistan is a good example of such a
    > >conflict, yet it can be seen from the US experience there a decade
    > >later that a certain degree of technical superiority, in both
    > equipment
    > >and training, can largely eliminate any advantage the local
    > anarchists
    > >may have once had, even when the conqueror is under both media
    > scrutiny
    > >and feels bound by international standards of behavior.
    >
    > There was almost no "media scrutiny", and the Afghans defeated the
    > Soviets with guerilla tactics, intelligence, and after the moderates
    > died or escaped, a brutal extremism that was the end result of a
    > decade
    > of fighting. Please read: Lessing's "The Wind Blows Away our Words"
    > for
    > eye-witness accounts, and a description of how the media and the rest
    > of the world "forgot" Afghanistan for many many years.

    I don't think you read that paragraph straight. I agree there was
    almost no media scrutiny of the Soviet occupation *but there was for
    the US investment last year*. Furthermore, you ignored my additional
    caveat that anarchical partisans require 3rd party nations for support,
    supply, and shelter. In the Soviet debacle, the Mujahedeen had the help
    of both Iran and Pakistan as both safe areas and supply areas. They
    additionally had the help of high tech weaponry from the US in the form
    of the Stinger which was decisive in eliminating the air superiority of
    Soviet air assets.

    They had so such sanctuary in the US operation of last year and
    instead, the millions of refugees that found shelter in the two
    neighboring nations have been getting repatriated. Since this refugee
    population was so crucial as a recruiting ground for the Mujahedeen, it
    is apparent that there will not be a continuing problem of any
    significant scope.

    THe only groups still utilizing the terrain and allies in the border
    areas are the few taliban leaders and al Qaeda allies who are PNG at
    least officially.

    =====
    Mike Lorrey
    "Live Free or Die, Death is not the Worst of Evils."
                                                         - Gen. John Stark
    "Pacifists are Objectively Pro-Fascist." - George Orwell
    "Treason doth never Prosper. What is the Reason?
    For if it Prosper, none Dare call it Treason..." - Ovid

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