Re: PEACE?: Gotta love those polls!

From: Dehede011@aol.com
Date: Thu Mar 13 2003 - 07:04:13 MST

  • Next message: MaxPlumm@aol.com: "Re: PEACE?: Gotta love those polls!"

    In a message dated 3/13/2003 3:24:45 AM Central Standard Time,
    samantha@objectent.com writes: When we have federal judges saying that the
    Constitution is irrelevant to their work then you may be sure that the
    current government is NOT American except in name alone.

    Samantha,
           Let me toss in an observation from the homely end of the scale. The
    next time you have occasion to be in a traffic court notice whether or not
    the proceedings are predicated on your admitting your guilt.
           If you are ever in a traffic court while you are innocent and there is
    no evidence of your being guilty you can really see confusion.
           The state of Illinois distributes lists of people they believe have no
    automobile liability insurance. You may never have occasion to know this but
    as you drive down the street or highway the traffic police will routinely
    check to see if you are wanted.
           A policeman checked me, he got an answer that I was driving without
    the state required liability insurance. He pulled me over and told me I had
    no insurance. I showed him my proof of insurance. After consultation with
    his sergeant, on the radio, he gave me a ticket with a court date.
           At that time I checked and found out that in addition to the Proof of
    Insurance the state requires us to carry I would need a letter from the
    Secretary of State. For most people that work in or around an office that is
    ridiculously easy to get -- I got the letter. Before I could get to court I
    got a 2nd ticket in a 2nd jurisdiction on the same charge.
           I went to court two times (separate jurisdictions) but both times the
    procedure was the same. The judge basically could not understand why an
    innocent person was before him, no proof of my guilt was ever given beyond
    the reading of the charge, and when I showed my proof of innocence (the state
    law demands you produce proof any time you are challenged on this particular
    law) the judge wanted to know what I had done. He was assuming I was guilty
    of something or I wouldn't be there so wouldn't I please tell him what it
    was?
           After five minutes or so of his trying to get me to admit guilt of
    something and my refusing to know what that might be he decided to quit
    wasting his time and let me go. As it was appropriate to the season the
    first judge wished me a good Thanksgiving and the 2nd wished me a Merry
    Christmas on my way out of the court.
           All of the above would be mystifying to me except that as my former
    occupation caused me to work with trade unions, I once was asked to help my
    neighbor put together negotiation material to bargain with a village police
    board and hopefully get the police department a raise. I helped my neighbor.
           I worked on the economic end of the bargaining. We put together a
    list of competing occupations for those wishing to hire or retain policemen.
    Then we got the prevailing pay scales in the area for those competing
    occupations. A comparison showed that the village policemen could do much
    better by moving to another occupation.
           My friend put together the part of the presentation that explained how
    the village could pay for the raise that was being requested. My friend
    showed the average dollar value of the tickets issued in the recent past and
    said I know we can raise this by a certain amount. Now his promise was based
    purely upon his judgment but other experienced people agreed with him.
           We got that police department the largest raise that had ever been
    given. The policemen were happy as they got a raise, the village was happy
    as it also made money on the deal. To summarize the policemen had promised
    the village more in fines than the village was promising the policemen in
    wages.
           Of course the local traffic patrolman knew nothing of all this -- it
    happened above his pay grade. That is how it is done. All the patrolman
    knows is what his sergeant tells him to do along with what ever excuse the
    sergeant gives him.
           Now, back to my experience with the traffic court, it was mystifying
    as I said. I don't have any final answers as to what was going on. But, it
    was all entirely consistent with the traffic court being part of the revenue
    producing arm of the local government.
           Samantha, the rot in our system starts long before we get into the big
    courts. That is all I am saying.
    Ron h.



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