Re: Oil Economics (was IRAQ sort of) OFF LIST***

From: Robert J. Bradbury (bradbury@aeiveos.com)
Date: Mon Feb 24 2003 - 14:49:42 MST

  • Next message: scerir: "ahem"

    On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Mike Lorrey wrote:

    > I really have to dispute this, Robert. WHile I'm no nuclear scientist,
    > my dad did design and build the core of a breeder reactor built in the
    > 1960's at Hanford for weapons materials production.

    Point granted, you obviously may know more about this since I've only
    lived in Washington since ~'83.

    > Breeder reactors can either produce OR eliminate nuclear material
    > depending on how you tune them.

    Point also granted. But they are *very* blunt tools for this job
    (if they weren't it seems likely we wouldn't have all those storage
    tanks out at Hanford...).

    I believe that the problem may relate to the fact that one has
    to provide protons/neutrons at specific energies to optimally
    transmute radioactive isotopes (this is related to their neutron
    stopping/absorption effeciencies I think).

    So there are two problems with nuclear waste:
    (a) separation -- ideally you want to *only* be dealing with the
        radioactive isotopes. I don't see this being solved until we
        have real nanotech and molecular sorting (Nanosystems 13.2.2,
        Nanomedicine VI Section 3.4.2) or molecular weighing
        (Nanomedicine 4.4.3 [single proton Massometers].
    and
    (b) transmutation -- which optimally involves tuning the energy
        of the transmuting (neutrons/protons) to match the absorption
        of the isotope being transmuted.

    I think (b) is why the Los Alamos people have been leaning in the
    direction of accelerators rather than breeder reactors. (Control of the
    energy levels (e.g. energy/neutron) in accelerators I believe can be
    much more finely tuned.)

    It still however doesn't solve the separation problem which
    is (I believe) why we still have places like Hanford.

    > You had one there for a while... I can show you pictures of the core
    > being assembled if you like, complete with pictures of my dad looking
    > like Homer Simpson with sideburns, a lab coat, and clipboard looking
    > on.... ;)

    Bring them to a future Extro Conf. I would certainly enjoy looking
    at them. And I'm sure many others would be interested in seeing
    a "real" breeder reactor.

    > Yet where are the French storing their waste? Certainly not the way we
    > are right now.

    Let us be specific so we don't do hand waving. There are two types of
    "waste". Spent fuel rods and radioactive materials from decommissioning
    plants.

    I suspect the French may be reprocessing the fuel rods [though I am not
    sure -- this requires an expert opinion of someone really familiar with
    the French situation.] It seems unlikely that they are storing them
    the way the utilities in the U.S. are -- something that creates a
    significant terrorist hazard.

    The "decommissioning" problem is one that I suspect they haven't
    had to deal with (significantly) yet because (most?) of the plants
    haven't reached the end of their useful lives. But it does really
    press on (a/b) above.

    Robert



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Mon Feb 24 2003 - 14:52:05 MST