Re: Dennis May replies/was Re: One solution to the Fermi Paradox

From: Technotranscendence (neptune@mars.superlink.net)
Date: Tue Feb 18 2003 - 19:41:00 MST

  • Next message: Technotranscendence: "Re: Dennis May replies/was Re: One solution to the Fermi Paradox"

    One last one, I think... After this, just look in the archives for
    Starship Forum at:

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Starship_Forum/

    Cheers!

    Dan
    http://uweb.superlink.net/neptune/EvilHour.html

    From: Dennis May determinism@hotmail.com
    To: Starship_Forum@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 7:22 PM
    Subject: [Starship_Forum] Re: Dennis May replies/was Re: One solution to
    the Fermi Paradox

    I wrote:

    >I see interlacing civilizations of nomads,
    >not colliding brick walls. Sort of like
    >different species of bees forming dispersed
    >swarms. One swarm can pass right through
    >another without conflict.

    Lee Corbin [lcorbin@tsoft.com] wrote:

    >At some early stages of the Von Neumann probe
    >dispersal, this seems right. But then as one
    >civilization begins using all available matter
    >ruthlessly grasping for every cycle of compute
    >power, this passes, I'd say.

    Competition between groups, particularly given WoMD, will prevent every
    speck of matter from being used. Civilizations have continual internal
    struggles for power which can become very dramatic with increasing size
    and complexity. The existence of geometrically replicating von Neumann
    probes would only increase the possibilities for military tension
    between competitors. Why would any group willingly give up resources to
    competitors which might overwhelm you with geometric replication.

    If it became apparent that nano-technology was taking over a planet,
    denying those resources to my human group, it would be time to unleash
    round the clock H-bombs until the nano-technology was stopped.

    Why is it assumed that consuming every speck of matter for computational
    purposes is an optimal situation? Any given individual within this
    scenario would be better off if unused resources were readily available
    rather than having to displace a competitor already controlling every
    speck of matter.

    With WoMD [geometric destruction] and geometric replication [von Neumann
    probes/biological systems] it is not obvious that there will ever be any
    situation where everything is used up. It is my considered opinion that
    the cost function of destruction is much cheaper than that of
    replication. That is the primary reason for the stability of the
    stealth, nomadic, decentralized civilizations. Dispersal increases the
    cost function of WoMD to the point that a steady state of
    replication/destruction is created. The sparseness of this steady state
    will be directly related to the technology available and physical first
    principles limiting WoMD and information technology. Since information
    exposes you to WoMD I expect very, very sparse dispersals will be
    required in the long run. Communication will need to be nearly
    impossible to distinguish from white noise. Leave little evidence of
    your passing and pass through quickly. von Neumann probes would find
    their greatest use in pre-positioning supplies which only you are able
    to locate easily. Your von Neumann probes will have to quietly hunt
    other von Neumann probes or be exposed themselves.

    Dennis May

    ~ * ~
    Starship Forum website:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Starship_Forum/



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