From: MaxPlumm@aol.com
Date: Fri Jan 24 2003 - 06:18:31 MST
Samantha wrote:
> "I gave no rant. I told you off for claiming I was just mouthing empty
> slogans as if I had no real thought (several posts accused
> all who think like I of this) or didn't really have any investment but was
> just passing on something I presumably picked up by osmosis."
To which Michael responded:
> Such as your opinions on Vietnam?
>
> "Once again you now bob and weave"
>
> Pot calling the kettle black? You should hardly be one to accuse someone of
> 'bobbing and weaving' considering multilpe people on this list have
> repeatedly asked you to justify your stance on Vietnam, especially when you
> make clear statement about opposing murderous regimes (such as Hitler) in
> WWII yet find the same attempt to oppose an even more murderous regime
> 'senseless' when considering Vietnam.
"Vietnam is a much less clearcut case. I have neither the time
nor inclination to debate Vietnam when a much more pressing and
immediate senseless war is staring us in the face. That is not
"bobbing and weaving". It is recognizing priorities and
meaningless tactics that it is pointless to spend precious time
playing to."
These are hardly meaningless tactics, when you suggest that we have a "more
pressing and immediate senseless war" staring us in the face. You are thereby
suggesting that the Vietnam War was senseless, and are attempting to tie in
the fact that action in Iraq would be an equal mistake. Now, Michael, I, and
several others have done are best to respectfully debate and refute that
contention. You have stated that war is justifiable when it combats an "evil
expansionistic power" and we have made clear that the Soviet Union met both
descriptions, and the same could be said about Ho's Communist Vietnam. Your
apparent contention that "all war is bad, except against the Nazis" will
continue to be seen as a hopelessly naïve and empty argument unless you can
justify your position. How is it that opposing expansionistic
totalitarianism in the form of the Nazis is acceptable while opposing
Communism, a larger and more expansionstic evil, is not?
> I also asked you multiple times what
> you felt of the Korean war, and to compare and contrast it with the Vietnam
> war.
"I am not interest in such a discussion. So what?"
Nothing, other than the fact that it leads one to believe that you are not
knowledgeable enough on these topics to justify your positions.
> Since I made a valient attempt to not come off as making personal
> attacks or present my case in a condescending tone, I can only conclude
that
> you can not present the justification for your opinions on these matters
and
> thus choose to ignore them entirely.
"It is not worth my time or yours."
Since when it is not worth one's time in a debate for someone to define their
positions with evidence rather than emotional appeals and empty claims?
>Or perhaps a small seed of doubt has
> been planted in the back of your mind that those anti-war protests you took
> part in actually contributed to the mass murder of millions of Indochinese
> people. Perhaps you find this so disturbing that this is why you ignore
> these comments and inquiries. Or perhaps I have allready made it into your
> 'kill file' Got to silence those dissenting opinions eh? Or maybe im just
> a promoter of 'anti-communist propoganda'
>
"Nope, not a single seed of doubt that that war was morally
reprehensible from the beginning. Sorry."
You're right, it absolutely was. Perhaps you'd like to bring that up with the
Vietnamese Communists and their sponsors who started it?
> "I am done with your massive intellectual dishonesty"
>
> Intellectual dishonesty? I am still waiting to hear if you feel the korean
> war was also 'senseless' and if it wasn't, why was it not senseless yet the
> vietnam war was?
>
"I am no expert on the Korean War. Do I have to analyze every
single war to your satisfaction to point out the absurdity of
this one? No, I don't think so. And I don't believe asking me
to play such a game instead of dealing directly with the
arguments is a sign of an honest and to the point discussion."
To my knowledge, you have not analyzed any war to anyone's satisfaction,
unless you call labeling something as "senseless" analysis. Michael's
inquiries are totally relevant to the point. If you are unable to back up
your blanket statements with evidence, there really isn't any point in you
having them.
Max
"At every turn, we have been beset by those who find everything wrong with
America and little that is right."
-Richard Nixon
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