From: Brett Paatsch (paatschb@ocean.com.au)
Date: Wed Jan 08 2003 - 18:59:59 MST
>From Natasha:
> From: Brett Paatsch
>
> >Emyln wrote:
>
> >>From what I understand, Natasha doesn't mean that Exi has no
> >>principles, no positions, in a political climate. It's got a function as
> >>a kind of lobby group, after all.
> ______
>
> True.
> >Does ExI have a position as a lobby group?<
> _______
>
> Not currently.
[Brett]
> >But my point is that whenever people gather especially when decisions
> need to be made about priorities and allocating resources there is
> politics.<
> _______
>
> Politics of this sort are social politics and more based on ideological
> discussions with some philosophy and religion tossed in, don't you think?
I'm not sure. More than what? I think (picking up on your definitions
below) many people when they think of politics do think of "the art or
science of government", but in the current context I am more drawing
on that meaning of the word that picks up "the total complex of relations
between people living in society". This meaning has as a subset "the art
or science of government".
Let me be a bit less definitionally fixated. The sort of politics I am
interested in, and I think many on the ExI list would be interested in, is
the sort of politics that is concerned not with mere esoteric discussions,
but with actually forging particular futures from a range of possible
futures.
Not with merely examining the world including the broader social world but
engaging with it. I, and I presume most on the ExI list want not so much
to be concerned with mere ideology, mere philosophy or religion (actually
in my case religion needs separate consideration) but with pragmatic
approaches to the propagating of good memes and towards increasing the
likelihood that good, or at least better social policies rather than bad or
inferior ones will be implemented.
My interest, (perhaps call?) to politics, or "social politics", if you
prefer is
a call to relevant pragmatic action *in the world* to achieve our objects
knowing we will be confronted all along the way with the "you should
not play God" charge as though we actually have a choice on that matter.
> I mean, if politics, formally is "the art or science of government" and
> also "the sympathies of a person" and even "the total complex of relations
> between people living in society". (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary)
>
> >>Further, even though many Extropians might be
> >>libertarian, or social democrat, or conservative, these leanings are
> >>orthogonal to being Extropian, and Exi in turn has no bias in the
> >>political dimension, as it does not involve itself in such.
>
> >By the political dimension I'm reading its neither for or against
> particular political parties that specifically seek government such
> as the Democracts and Republicans. I don't think it should by
> in that sort of politic either.<
>
> >>This doesn't mean that it couldn't talk about having political
> >>opponents, couldn't lobby political groups, or otherwise engage in
> >>the political landscape in representing Extropy. It's just that it is
> >>not a political party in and of itself, and doesn't desire to be.
> __________
>
> Yes.
>
> >Having gone through Natasha's Pro-Act presentation, I can now
> see that some thought has been given to competitors in the meme-
> scape.<
> ________
>
> This was my objective. But, it was a lot of thought -:)
I'm sure :-)
> >I still thing that the questions I raised run orthogonal to these
> points though.<
> ________
>
> Just like orthogonal's etymology, there are many cross-sections.
>
> >>But I could be wrong. :-)<<
>
> >Just don't go thinking you've got an exclusive on that terrain :-)<
> _________
>
> Excuse me, can we share please? I've earned some of that terrain :-)
Definitely, but just remember, the "Lowest Common Denominator" title
belongs exclusively to Spike, and he's vigorously defensive of it.
Oh, that we could live in such a world ;-)
Brett
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