From: Brett Paatsch (paatschb@ocean.com.au)
Date: Wed Jan 08 2003 - 02:53:19 MST
Emyln wrote:
> From what I understand, Natasha doesn't mean that Exi has no
> principles, no positions, in a political climate. It's got a function as
> a kind of lobby group, after all.
Clearly ExI has principles (at least of a sort) - The Extropian
Principles.
Take this quote from the front page:
"Extropianism is a transhumanist philosophy. The Extropian
Principles define a specific version or "brand" of transhumanist
thinking. Like humanists, transhumanists favor (sic) reason,
progress, and values centred on our well being rather than on an
external religious authority."
Favor. Not choose. As I've said elsewhere reasoning and believing
are mutually exclusive in the same head on the same issue at the
same time. A choice has to be made. To not chose is a choice.
I'm not really sure a person can be just a little bit superstitious. I
don't know.
I wonder if the Extropian Principles are trying to having a bit of a
bet each way. They want to appeal to the broadest possible range
of people (which is good) and so not be inaccessible to anybody
(which is also good in principle but in practice such an approach
can dumb a philosophy down moving a group forward for harmony's
sake at the rate that is comfortable to the least capable of the
group). The desire to be inclusive and not leave anybody out is
laudable. But some people will opt out of sharing in the extropian
'philosophy' and principles anyway and of their own choice.
I've picked out only one word "favor" but I think I could work
my way through the principles pointing out that the desire to
be inclusive, to leave no human being that wants to come
behind is a big part of them - a desire which I share, but a
desire which I suspect cannot be realised without dropping
the rate of change to that which the slowest can cope with. Because
the slowest will most likely be those who retain superstitions as
substantial aspects of their worldview yet are attracted to
aspects of extropianism as a bit of an each way bet. The mindset
I am referring too wants this life to last as long as possible and be
as good as possible but they then hope to get to an afterlife if they
need it as well. The neo-Pascal's wagerers.
Does ExI have a position as a lobby group?
I'm not really sure. Again I'm writing from Australia so I may be
misunderstanding or not seeing certain things. My exposure to ExI is
pretty much limited to the list.
> I interpreted Natasha's statements as saying in particular that Exi
> has no political affiliations. eg: it has no association with any formal
> Libertarian groups.
I understand that to be the case too, but there are at least two "forms"
of politics. The one that most people think of may be the Democrats
vs Republicans (in the US).
But my point is that whenever people gather especially when decisions
need to be made about priorities and allocating resources there is politics.
> Further, even though many Extropians might be
> libertarian, or social democrat, or conservative, these leanings are
> orthogonal to being Extropian, and Exi in turn has no bias in the
> political dimension, as it does not involve itself in such.
By the political dimension I'm reading its neither for or against
particular political parties that specifically seek government such
as the Democracts and Republicans. I don't think it should by
in that sort of politic either.
> This doesn't mean that it couldn't talk about having political
> opponents, couldn't lobby political groups, or otherwise engage in
> the political landscape in representing Extropy. It's just that it is
> not a political party in and of itself, and doesn't desire to be.
Having gone through Natasha's Pro-Act presentation, I can now
see that some thought has been given to competitors in the meme-
scape.
I still thing that the questions I raised run orthogonal to these
points though.
(I've never heard the word orthogonal used so often as it is in
extropic circles - it seems even single word memes are
contagious)
> But I could be wrong. :-)
Just don't go thinking you've got an exclusive on that terrain :-)
Brett
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Wed Jan 15 2003 - 17:35:50 MST