From: Brett Paatsch (paatschb@ocean.com.au)
Date: Sun Jan 05 2003 - 16:31:58 MST
Natasha wrote:
> From: humania@t-online.de (Hubert Mania)
>
> > [Where] the discussion of the Lyle Burkhead['s] memes are concerned:
> They are not worth the interaction of photons with recycled electrons the
> emails are written on.<
>
> This is why Damien and I decided to not discuss this further in the
> current context.
>
> Natasha
Whilst I understand Natasha concern, I am not sure that I can agree
with Hubert's "assessment" this time. It may well be that certain memes
can serve as bad examples and opportunities to differentiate ourselves
in the eyes of newbies (and some not so newbies) I think this group
*is* vital and energetic enough, and also that if it is to grow still more
effective in propagating its memes then it will need to do so under
environmental conditions that will not always be sweet sunshine and
soft gentle rain.
Frankly, it has hardly been tested yet in comparison with what may
be thrown at it by those seeing extropic memes as a threat and really
going after it. Certainly there was no threat to ExI from Lyle Burkhead
in the link I saw. He didn't even associate himself with extropians. He
actually says in the link (which is all of his work I've read or am
particularly interested in reading). "The fact that I disagree with other
transhumanists doesn't mean I should abandon the field, it just means
I should state my positions clearly and delineate the exact difference
between my view and those of the Extropians and other groups".
>From his own words its seems clear to me he doesn't consider
himself an extropian he considers himself a transhumanist.
So long as many people fear the unknown and certain dark memes
remain in the "collective consciousness" (a bit of an oxymoron - I
admit) words like transhuman will continue to invoke both casual
curiousity and some anxiety and the opportunity for some cheap
shots and muckraking. Its just not *healthy* to forget that any
group concerned with changing so much of the status quo of
contemporary society even for the better (and with the best of
motives) can still be misunderstood both those outside it and can so
easily be misrepresented by those opposed to it to the wider
community. Toth-Fejel, if he was a Catholic, (and Greg Burch says
he was and that *is* good enough for me) was *gentle* and almost
encouraging compared to some that may target extropians and
transhumanists. One can have relative safety or relative political
effectiveness in achieving ones memes. I don't see that one can
have both when the memes are so different and challenging to so
many in the mainstream.
Still, it is certainly not my list, and others have invested much in
setting it up and maintaining it. I consider myself to be an extropian
(as I understand it) and I will help defend the fort if it needs
defending so long as what is inside remains worth defending. I
certainly see no immediate danger of that not being the case.
If any of the extropian committee (especially) ever sends me a
please desist or consider post offlist I *will* heed it. But I strongly
urge against shooting messengers, it is a very easy mistake to
make even for bright capable folk.
Regards,
Brett
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