Re: Private Property and Capitalism
Thu, 17 Oct 1996 05:22:26 -0400

Snip of a debate between Saresh and John (Leftilib vs. Anarcaprocy)

>How many children don't get an education because they have
to work in sweatshops in order to support themselves. India is a good example
of capitalism running amuck.

( John)
>>Do you think people in India are sub human? Do you think they love their
children less than we do? The reason they send their young children to work
in factories is that the alternative is worse, starvation and death, you've
said the same thing yourself " they will do anything to survive". You want to
stop this child labor, the thing that let's them survive, and that doesn't
seem like a very smart thing to do, and it CERTAINLY doesn't seem very

Neither is child labor. It was once a problem here as well, we outlawed
here in the US. It rouses people's sensibilities and therefore is a typical
( and in my opinion viable) argument against deregulation and anarchy. It
could be somewhat contraversial but it still does not address the real

It seems as though the major ( and oft repeated) spiral I see here is simple:
either we should or shouldn't ( it could be argued as CAN or CAN'T) protect
the "starving ( read uneducated) masses" from the (dishonest) greed of
others. One crucial element , and one I keep harping on is how one envisions
*changing* the moral systems that keep people doing what they are doing...

Saresh, you seem to feel that these people are too dumb and/or helpless to
take care of thier own needs or political choices and you and the govt. you
subscribe to will make their choices for them. John you seem to think that
they are capable and already fully aware of the choices that they make and
have the critical faculties and/or ability to empower
themselves and do that which is in their best interests.

I say that with current memes (including, in India for example, Hinduism and
other religions that assert that suffering is a good thing, or one's proper
place in the scheme of things) give us access to a vast "meme- deficiency"
data base that needs to be addressed. If we're going to survive and flourish
in an anarcho-capitalist freedom, I propose that most of the developed
planet needs a big Codependant's Anonymous meeting, and the rest of the (3rd
world?) planet needs to go to Catholics Anonymous(or substitue any mindless
acceptance of suffering and subordination with the promise of a better
afterlife) .