Re: Gun Owner/Extropians census (was:Re: look out! long-haired gun loon!)

Michael Lorrey (
Tue, 16 Dec 1997 07:32:34 -0500

Grant Sparks wrote:
> From: Michael Lorrey <>
> >the 7:2 margin among American respondants does
> >heavily weight toward the original statement, that more subscribers on
> >average own guns than the general population
> Why do USA-only statistics give heavier weight to statements concerning
> extropian-subscribers ?
> As the extropian list is obviously made up of both USA and international
> subscribers, surely the heaviest weight should be given to figures that include
> both USA and international data.
> I thought you were linking the extropian *mindset* to *gun-ownership*.

The original debated statement was that there were more gun owners to
non gun owners on the list than was in the general population. The only
statistic I have that is reliable, to my knowledge, of gun ownership in
a general population, is the 60 million owners figure that I've gotten
from both NRA and HCI propaganda, as well as others. There are also
approximately 200 million guns in private hands in the US as well. I
don't have figures for the world at large, or for any other specific
country. If anyone has such data and can provide it, I would appreciate

> If the question is the link between extropian *mind-set* and gun ownership in
> the *USA* then you may aswell use the international figures as you can remove me
> from the "anti" and put me into the "pro-gun" column. I don't believe in gun
> ownership for myself in my country, but would certainly own one if I was in the
> USA.
> You might find that the other two non-USA anti-gun owners would also change
> their vote if you asked them how they'd feel living without a gun in the states.
> Its a different question altogether than the one that was originally asked.

I really only did it for the statistical comparison, though if I wanted
to be snide, I suppose I'd ask if one lived in a country like, say,
China, that one would be just hunky dory happy as a clam that one had no
right to free speech, no right to travel as you please, no right to
domocratic pluralism, etc, just because one happened to live is such a

I personally beleive that all people should have the sort of rights we
have here, and as Mao Tse Dungbeetle said, "Justice comes from the
barrel of a gun". The right to keep and bear arms is the spring from
whence all other political rights come. One either beleives that
political freedoms are gained by force, or that they are granted by God,
and I don't see many theists round here.

			Michael Lorrey
------------------------------------------------------------	Inventor of the Lorrey Drive
MikeySoft: Graphic Design/Animation/Publishing/Engineering
How many fnords did you see before breakfast today?