Re: When was the last time an extropian post changed your life?

Michael Butler (
Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:11:45 -0800 (PST)

On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Michael Lorrey wrote:

That pretty much sums up how we're talking past each other.

> Ok, how about Specialized lists??? Just so you don't have to admit your
> feelings of being holier than thou.

Pot and kettle, friend.

> I joined the list after it went public as well, but was a member of the
> transhuman list long before that, and was waiting for a while for
> extropians to open up.

And I predicated my joining on it being closed, and was disturbed when I
discovered it wasn't.

> You don't see network television as elitist media? EXCUSE ME??? REALITY
> CHECK>>>>

I said "no more than". As a mathematics-competent person, you shuold be
able to re-read what I said and see that I might have meant (and did
intend) an inequality, less-than-or-equal. It is you who turned that into
an equals sign.

> > I don't see this as isolationist. Nor any more elitist than a gas station.
> > TANSTAAFL. My attention is worth something, AND SO IS YOURS. Get it? :)
> What is the current market rate. No, not your personal rate, the MARKET

Beside the point, since Max has stated he does not want to make money per
se from the list.

Seeing the utter lack of successful pay subscription services on
> the net, the value of your attention, on a statistical basis, is
> effectively nil.

Perhaps, but I don't use my attention statistically, nor in the Joe&Marge
Sixpack pursuits of watching the Simpsons or X-files or Home Improvement
or football.

> > Allow me to render a free translation: We should be perfect people, and
> > then any system would work.
> ad hominem et al....

I don't see an ad hominem here.

> > >THose
> > >who are too stubbornly newbie for it to have any effect on usually dig
> > >themselves deep enough for some real fun once they get into rude enough
> > >territory.
> >
> > I don't want to play that game so much any more.
> As the star of Starship Stroopers says: A Citizen is a person who makes
> the survival of the human race a matter of their personal
> responsibility.

Indeed. And this list could help more if it were higher signal. QED.

> > Au contraire. The tragedy of the commons is being enacted out all around us.
> Your motives speak for themselves. You are a) Trying to figure out a way
> to limit the level of participation in the list in a manner that
> hopefully increases the average intelligence of the list content. b) You
> propose to do this by charging people for posting priviledges, which is
> tantamount to a tariff on the free exchange of ideas. Your error is that
> you wrongly assume that there aren't people who don't mind spending
> money for the right to be complete idiots.

I didn't assume that. You assume I assume that: that the pricetag will
suffice. It won't. But it *will* prevent an inordinate number of bad
examples from giving newbies bad lessons. I'll filter too, if I have to. I
want to try the experiment. You are convinced it won't work.

We don't have a lot more to say to each other on this topic, I think.

> free. If Max wants to make money on the list, I suggest he use his free
> market rights and start using advertising as an income source.

But he doesn't, so that's that. :) :)