Re: To space without rockets ?

Berrie Staring (
Sat, 25 Oct 1997 23:56:23 +0200

I resend this msg, since I see my own mail in the list as
an empty mail ?

Also, I recieve your awnsers, before I see my own mail
in the list ?


Hello all,

First:- I don't know for sure if I recieved all your mails.
-The mails from Anders & Kennita are at work, so I can only
try to recall them
- The spelling checker is also at work :-)

> >As I tried to draw, could we make some "flexible" pipes,
> >that have attached balls with a light gas. This way the
> >structure rises from earth to space.
> As Kennita and others have pointed out, it is hard to build such a
> structure. However, even if you could build it, it wouldn't be that
> for getting to space. It is a non-obvious fact that most of the
> in getting from here to orbit is in acquiring speed, not altitude.

question: if you have altitude (say into orbit), why do you still need
speed ? (I mean, for example, the elevator, screws his way up, does
it need to gain speed ? I thought it could go the whole way with the
same speed)

> Attaining orbital velocity of 8 km/sec requires storing 16,000,000 joules
> in every kilogram of payload. On the other hand, reaching an altitude of
> 100 km requires only 1,000,000 joules per kilogram. So climbing to the
> of a 100 km tower gets you only 6% of the way to orbit.


But: if you'd had a rocket-platform on the top of this structure,
isn't it easier then to go into orbit ?
Also since, it's space, can't you just build on. Ok, it's a long way
but in space the structure doesn't have a lot of forces to take on.

Then: can someone tell me from where to where the "winds" are
blowing hard ! ( I mean from X-km to Y-km from earth)
I thought that maybe by making holes into the pipe, more like
a grid, you could save weight and the wind can get trough the

Maybe I'm not seeing this right: But isn't it the problem to get
away from the gravity of earth that usses all the energy.
And therefor it's so expensive to go to space ?
My simple idea, is just to get an elevator to space (100 km ?)
This wil give you a road to space, by wich you could ship parts to
this height. Build rockets/sun-sails/etc.. on top and work from there.

So one problem is: the gas isn't light enhough anymore at some
point in the air ?

An other, the materials for the pipes ? Does this mean that the forces
from the wind, can rip appart a woven stucture from some very strong
wire ! one available today.

3rd: the gas balls, can't keep the stucture up.

If one of you has the time, can you tell me a bit more about, how
big a ball of gas would be needed to keep up a pipe from let's say:
- 4-diameter, and a lenght of 100 meter
- it's a woven structure of a stong wire (available today)
- it's an open structure (because of the wind)
- and it has in it of cause the teeth, were the screw-elevator,
has to hold on.
- I have no clue, what something like this would weigh :-)

Anyway, if some of you have the time, and think it's fun,
could "we" (says the one with now scientific knowledge :-)
try to create(virtual) a thing like this. Just to see were the
problems lie, and find some ways to get arround them.

I know, the cable on to an astroid is probably better.
But my thought-experiment, is more from the ground up !
So: we can't make a cable on to an astroid.

Anyway: thanks all for the help !



Berrie Staring Email :
Member : Excedo Dutch >H
Site: present in november 1997
" if we agree; that what you do to someone....
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