Re: Free-Markets: Extro-Nazi's or Extro-Saints?

Hagbard Celine (
Wed, 10 Sep 1997 17:50:22 -0400 wrote:
> I'm going to make the bold proposal that *The collapse of the World
> Economy is inevitable". Before I support that claim,

Indeed, the present norms of world economic relationships will
inevitably change beyond recognition as the Singularity approaches. And,
yes, some collapse may indeed be inevitable.

> I want to add
> further that unless we reach the Singularity as soon possible (as Eliezer
> S. Yudkowsky suggests - see
>, most of humanity,
> including many on this list, will experience
> enormous suffering and possibly death. I give you a dialog:
> 'Why?!" you may ask.
> Because Free-Market Economics is GOOD for COMPANIES (fictitious legal
> entities and BAD for PEOPLE (very real entities).
> 'How can you say that?! The economy is doing great, the stock market
> is at an all-time high, unemployment is at a 30yr low, inflation is low,
> and corporate profits are up!'

People are stockholders in corporations. As corporations do well, so do
their stockholders.


> 'Not at all. I happen to be one of those cyber-geeks! But unlike
> many of my fellow colleagues, I have a conscience and a heart. I care
> about the 80% or humanity I am obsoleting with each line of code I write.

You're funny. You care about the people you are obsoleting? Stake your
claim now, the moral high ground is disappearing fast! But you don't
care that much, right? Or else, you wouldn't be doing it, would you? I
think a social conscience is just that, a social conscience. It has zero
praxis. Its easy to feel bad about "plights." What is your guilt
accomplishing? Zippo.

Try again, I'm sympathetic but totally unpersuaded.

> I
> have perused the extro list for over 2 years now, and I have yet to
> hear any reasonable talk about compassion or building livingry for the
> majority o humanity that is becoming increasingly unnecessary in the
> free-market. If you don't care extropians, I hope you can bury your conscience
> as you watch the rest of humanity languish to death while you ride your
> extropic vehicles to the stars.

Again, the fact that you *DO* care about the majority of humanity is
useless. And who said extropy was a secret?

> In closing I would like to say that when people are no longer needed
> for a free-market economy, then a free-market economy is no longer needed
> by the people.

Huh? That's a nice way to close, but it doesn't seem to follow from your
earlier premises.

"When people are no longer needed for a free-market economy": People are
needed for the most basic and important function there is in a
free-market -- collecting the profits.

Free-market not needed by the people? What is your alternative? I mean
there's pure communalism, pure capitalism and all the fuzzy gradations
in between. Take your pick.

> So the question then becomes, whats beyond the
> free-market? Any ideas?

Everything owned by one entity S. Humans may or may not be in the

> I can't think of any with out getting bogged down into some silly
> left-winged drivel. Peronally, I hope we get to the singularity soon,
> otherwise we may all drown in our own free-market success. Except of course
> for you savvy extropians!

You might want to consider that the Singularity, while inevitable, is
not necessarily the answer to your concerns.

> Holly Pearson
> P.S. So, are you an extro-nazi or an extro-saint?

Holly, you must have missed my earlier post (actually, this morning), on
Godwin's Law of Nazi Apologies. What little credibility you might've had
just went out the window in my eyes. But I'll post this anyway.