Re: Uploading
Wed, 9 Jul 1997 15:08:50 -0400 (EDT)

[Reply to Brent Allsop and EvMick]

Brent Allsop wrote:

> > I'm going to be wildly speculative here: Could it be that
> > consciousness is a product of any logic (not just highly complex
> > networks such as our brain).
> Logic is simply a set of rules that specify a particular
> behavior. There must be something physical which implements or
> instantiates or performs this behavior. I see no reason why logic
> does anything outside of whatever the particular physical phenomenon
> that is performing the logic is directly responsible for. There must
> be some actual physical phenomenon that is producing the consciousness
> and it is this conscious phenomenon that represents or instantiates or
> performs the logic of our minds. The conscious phenomenon of our
> minds are able to perform logical operations, it doesn't arise from
> that logic.

Maybe I wasn't very specific about what I meant by logic - I'm using logic as
a term to describe cause and effect. In it's simplest form it could be a
collision between two solid objects, sending each in different directions.
Or a simple chemical reaction, at a more complex form it could be our brain,
a collection of these smaller parts.

Now imagine that every time there's a chemical reaction, or two objects
collide or anything happens where there is an outcome there's a spark of
consciousness. Every time a reaction occurs it creates conscious thought.
From this pool of conscii larger conscii start to form, in fact there could
be some sort of evolution taking place that decides what conscii survive and
which fade (a good consciousness being one that becomes aware, as non-aware
consciousness is pointless).

These smaller conscii could be so inferior that you probably wouldn't call
them conscious at all. Think of them as sparks being created by gears
churning together, eventually enough of these sparks can create a full blown
consciousness like that of the human mind. We could also be part of a larger
consciousness, but just as we are not aware of these smaller conscii, or even
each others conscious minds we would not be aware of a higher level

This is, of course, only an idea. I can't prove it now just as much as you
cannot prove to me that you are conscious. I suspect I only developed this
theory because I like the idea of discovering that something we once
treasured as setting us apart, turns out to be one of the most abundant
things in the universe!

I'd like to take this opportunity to coin the word 'conscii' - if you don't

EvMick wrote:

> The author of the books whose title I mangled asserts that mankind as a
> was not "counscious" until one of the early civilizations
> dudes with the clay tablets) He furthur asserts that there were some
> holdouts until rather recently...(how else could Pizzarro and just a few
> buddies effectively stomp and entire civilization...I mean we Texans did
> pretty good at the Alamo but get REAL!)....The conquistadors were
> the Aztects (as a whole) were not.

My idea was consciousness being created by physical movement. Whereas memes
are ideas being evolved within the mind.

> Now suppose that consciousness is a meme. And suppose that there are
> different the flu....(are you more conscious than Bubba?
> Bubba even conscious at all? Is Bubba even awake?)

I have thought about consciousness as a learned or evolved phenomenon.
Prehaps what I am experiencing as consciousness is really just me *thinking*
i'm conscious, and it really never happened at all.

> That being stipulated...wouldn't it require a language to transmit
> "consciousness"...or at least some type of meme vector....(TV transmits
> this to much of a stretch?)

You could say that you are not conscious until you are told you are
conscious, after which you look back and say "Oh yeah! I was conscious all a
long" and therefore can't remember a point where you weren't conscious. This
could be easily past along. We would not notice the difference between a
conscious being and a non-conscious being until we ask - of course, as soon
as we explain the question, they're infected and they also think they're

I prefer the idea that it's something physical and within our grasp.