Re: SOC/BIO: Rifkin's .. risk

From: Steve (
Date: Sat Aug 05 2000 - 11:15:13 MDT

> > > Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 12:47:01 -0400
> > > From: "Michael S. Lorrey" <>
> > > Subject: Re: SOC/BIO: Rifkin's "worldwide moratorium" on genetically
> > > modified organisms
>Sellafield? Nothing.

BNFL has paid out millions of pounds in compensation to its workers for a
range of cancers, including leukemia, on a probability of just 20% that the
cancers were caused by radiation.

>TMI? Not one fatality. Chernobyl? A system purposely
>overloaded with all safety systems turned off, as some sort of stupid
'test' by
>your socialist buddies. The lesson of Chernobyl is that socialists can't be
>trusted with nuclear power. The lesson of TMI is that US nuclear plants are
>systems even under the worst failure conditions.

If socialists/ 3rd world countries can't be trusted, then they shouldn't be
built! Chernobyl affected quite a few (non-socialist) countries as well
..... there was a ban on consumption even of British lamb directly because
of it for several years.

Are you telling me that there are no stupid jerks/ human incompetents in the
USA (no matter what their politics)?

> So the safety of tests *can't* be guaranteed then?

>Nothing in life is guaranteed. Get out of your cradle and give up the
>blankee. Mommy ain't nursing you no more.

Yes, am not disagreeing that the world is a dangerous place ..... but I
don't want
prats I don't even know making it *unnecessarily* more dangerous.
The greens that you hate are just taking steps on their own behalf against
what they feel is a direct
threat to their survival ... not relying on some governmental nanny safety

> >
> > OK, so you question the motives of "greenies" who may have left-wing
> > politics. But for sure the motives of Monsanto and the big
> > pushing this GM thru as fast they can *ARE* motivated solely by
> > self-interest and financial gain.
> What is your reply to this point?

>How do you know what their interests are? Their stockholders are interested
>making money, surely, or else they would not be investing in those
companies. I
>fail to see why such an obviously obsolete socialist argument needs any
>at least on this list.

Obvious point ..... yes, even you seem to accept "stockholders are
interested in making money."
But only an *obsolete* argument if wrong ... are you claiming that Monsanto
are acting out of altruism??

>Which has shown tons of evidence that it is perfectly safe there. Humans
>been introducing genetically modified agricultural species into the
>for millennia. The only difference between then and now is then we were
>the dice with the genes in our breeding programs, while now we have a very
>idea of what we are getting. Its quite clear that GE programs are far safer
>the hybridization programs humans have been running for thousands of years.
>Anyone who knows ANYTHING about agriculture knows that.

I think one danger of GM strains is it will lead to monoculture ... the new
GM seeds might well replace the variety of (less efficient yielding)
strains, and cut down on biodiversity.

>What is your answer to the question, though??? What is permaculture?


Permaculture values and validates traditional knowledge and experience.
Permaculture incorporates sustainable agriculture practices and land
management techniques and strategies from around the world. Permaculture is
a bridge between traditional cultures and emergent earth-tuned cultures.

Permaculture promotes organic agriculture which does not use pesticides to
pollute the environment.

Permaculture aims to maximize symbiotic and synergistic relationships
between site components.

Permaculture is urban planning as well as rural land design.

Permaculture design is site specific, client specific, and culture specific.
?Source: Pilarski, Michael (ed.) 1994. Restoration Forestry. Kivaki Press,
Durango, CO. p. 450.

Due to the inherent sustainability of perennial cropping systems,
permaculture places a heavy emphasis on tree crops. Systems that integrate
annual and perennial crops-such as alley cropping and agroforestry-take
advantage of "the edge effect," increase biological diversity, and offer
other characteristics missing in mono- culture systems. Thus, multicropping
systems that blend woody perennials and annuals hold promise as viable
techniques for large-scale farming. Ecological methods of production for any
specific crop or farming system (e.g., soil building practices, biological
pest control, composting) are central to permaculture as well as to
sustainable agriculture in general.

Hope this helps.
fully post-human since the 1980's!

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