Re: A Challenge To All Extropians/Free Martketeers

Paul Hughes (
Sat, 25 Apr 1998 21:56:52 -0700

Dan Clemmensen wrote:

> Even the most "conservative" singularitans place the singularity
> before the year 2030. IMO, unaugmented humans will be completely
> economically obsolete. Your questions should therefore be directed
> at the economy of transhumanity, and perhaps the economics of the
> transition, because there will be no human economy.

In order to get from 1 to 3 you must pass through 2. People will not have
access to nanotechnology if they have already died of starvation from the
automation leading right up to nanotech. If what your saying is only the
elite of the elite will survive to become transhumans then I could give a shit
about any transhuman economy, thank you very much.

> The best humanity can hope for is that transhumanity is altruistic,
> If so, then transhumans will help humans become transhumans.

?That would be ideal. But 'altruism' is one particular value than has been
given a bad rap by several on this list.

> Very rapid increases in productivity caused by
> nanotechnology or AI may have the effect of a dramatic deflation. If
> so, the rich may not be in much better shape than the poor: Your money
> is useful only as feedstock for the nanotech, with exactly the same
> value as dirt. On the other hand, the necessities and luxuries of
> life will be essentially free, so who cares? On the third hand, you
> will be transhuman, so there is no way that a simple human such as
> myself can judge whether this will make you happy.

This is all very true, but it dodges the question of how the majority of
people will survive just getting to that nanotech transhuman phase. It's the
sophisticated automation leading up to nanotech that first poses a problem.
Again, you can't get from 1 to 3 without passing through 2. 2 is what I've
been talking about. How do you survive the *transition*?