Re: Death Penalty (was Re: Didn't need no welfare state)

From: Michael S. Lorrey (
Date: Wed Apr 19 2000 - 00:41:09 MDT

Zero Powers wrote:
> >From: "Michael S. Lorrey" <>
> >
> >James Rogers wrote:
> > >
> > > On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, Zero Powers wrote:
> > > > >From: James Rogers <>
> > > > >
> > > > >The only protection offered against illegitimate use of deadly force
> >in
> > > > >the U.S. is to kill the state agents/police at the time the incident
> > > > >occurs.
> > > >
> > > > Murder is *already* a capital offense, even if you are wearing a cop
> >uniform
> > > > at the time you commit the murder. So I assume what you are
> >suggesting is
> > > > some sort of summary execution which bypasses the jury trial process,
> >right?
> > > > That sounds like a really great plan. Oh, except for the minor
> >detail
> > > > that *no one in their right mind would become a cop*. I'm amazed that
> >they
> > > > can hire people as cops now to get paid marginally well to risk their
> >lives
> > > > every working hour of the day. And now, in addition to getting
> >reprimanded,
> > > > suspended, fired and sued for making an error, you think they should
> >be
> > > > *killed* too? Yeah, sure I might take that job...if it paid $10
> >million a
> > > > year.
> >
> >No, it would make sure that cops make sure that their actions are legal
> >before they take them. When you are dealing with life or death issues,
> >why does the life of an innocent law abiding civilian mean less than
> >someone who has been condemned to death by a jury? You seem to think
> >that so long as the cops are doing their jobs and following orders, they
> >can kill whoever they want with impunity.
> Well from James' more recent post it seems that I had *him* wrong when I
> suggested that he was espousing summary execution for cops who did bad
> shootings. He seems to understand the overarching impracticality of such an
> extreme measure. You, however, seem to think it would be a good thing. So
> I pose the question now to you - where in the world do you think you would
> find people to take the job of a cop if a mistake in judgment would lead to
> their summary execution? How much do you think such brave souls would have
> to be paid to take the job?

There are many millions of law abiding citizens who carry concealed
weapons every day (myself included), who live under the same standard
every day. If I kill someone I beleive is committing a crime with a
deadly weapon, why should I be held to a higher standard of behavior
than a cop who does the same thing? Since the cop is supposedly more
trained than I, he should be the one living up to the higher standard
than I (why should he have more authority if he isn't more trained?). If
I make a mistake, and kill someone, I can be held responsible, just as
you describe. I accept that risk, because I know that there is a greater
risk if I DONT carry that gun that someone WILL get hurt by my inability
to either defend myself or someone else. And, I don't get paid a dime to
take that risk.. Howz them apples?

> Granted, trigger-happy cops are a bad thing. But are cops who are afraid to
> shoot until *after* they are shot at necessarily a good thing? My guess is
> that that would only lead to a sharp increase in the number of cops killed
> in the line of duty. What you seem to suggest is a lose-lose situation for
> the cops. If they shoot first, and they have made a mistake, they are
> executed. If they don't shoot first, chances are they are executed by the
> bad guys. Given that set of circumstances, if I had to choose between being
> a cop and a robber..."stick 'em up buddy!"

The fact is that cops are typically very poorly trained in the use of
their guns, and in the use of deadly force. They don't practice with
their weapons more than once a year, for their annual qualification, and
typically their qualification scores are abysmal. Cops typically don't
participate in civilian marksmanship competitions specifically because
they always get embarrassed by their poor scores. Why should they care
about being proficient? They aren't held responsible for their actions
like we civilians are...

Mike Lorrey

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