Re: some bits of Euro history

Dwayne (
Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:59:47 +1100

Anton Sherwood wrote:
> > Michael Lorrey wrote:
> > > While the Empire was stagnant, the middle ages was not caused by
> > > the church, but by the pillaging and destruction of the Mongol Hordes, the
> > > Viking incursions, and the general migratory habits of the various tribes of
> > > 'barbarians' such as the Vandals, the Visigoths, the Angles, the Franks, etc.
> Dwayne wrote:
> > Sigh. Look, if you're ignorant of history, don't parade it.
> > The mongols never made it past Vienna. In fact I don't think they
> > made it *to* Vienna. ...
> You may be thinking of the Turks, who besieged Vienna in 1529 and 1683.

No, I most assuredly am not.
All of my history texts are in boxes while I look for somewhere
to live, but acvcording to the national geographic behind me,
(February 1997) the mongols reached the outskirts of Vienna in
1241 but turned bakc when news reached them that Ogodei the Great
Khan had died.

> The Mongols (coming through Poland) reached central Germany, if memory
> serves; they turned back in 1241 because their leader died.

Vienna is as far as they made it.

> > > So you admit that cultural evolution is "a long row of bad coincidences,
> > > backstabbings, and battle for power"? If this is so, why do you say that "power
> > > structures need to end" for human evolution to occur?
> >
> > Because without this scrabbling for power we'd have evolved a lot
> > further than we have to date. Look at how long it took Europe to
> > climb back up after the fall of Rome.
> Gee, call me naive, but I'd have sworn the fall of Rome amounted to the
> end of a power structure.