some bits of Euro history

Anton Sherwood (
Mon, 16 Mar 1998 22:03:20 -0700

> Michael Lorrey wrote:
> > While the Empire was stagnant, the middle ages was not caused by
> > the church, but by the pillaging and destruction of the Mongol Hordes, the
> > Viking incursions, and the general migratory habits of the various tribes of
> > 'barbarians' such as the Vandals, the Visigoths, the Angles, the Franks, etc.

Dwayne wrote:
> Sigh. Look, if you're ignorant of history, don't parade it.
> The mongols never made it past Vienna. In fact I don't think they
> made it *to* Vienna. ...

You may be thinking of the Turks, who besieged Vienna in 1529 and 1683.
The Mongols (coming through Poland) reached central Germany, if memory
serves; they turned back in 1241 because their leader died.

> > So you admit that cultural evolution is "a long row of bad coincidences,
> > backstabbings, and battle for power"? If this is so, why do you say that "power
> > structures need to end" for human evolution to occur?
> Because without this scrabbling for power we'd have evolved a lot
> further than we have to date. Look at how long it took Europe to
> climb back up after the fall of Rome.

Gee, call me naive, but I'd have sworn the fall of Rome amounted to the
end of a power structure.

"How'd ya like to climb this high without no mountain?" --Porky Pine
Anton Sherwood   *\\*   +1 415 267 0685
!! visiting New Mexico, end of March !!