cryonics and abortion- prominent cryonicists weigh in...

From: john grigg (
Date: Thu Jan 20 2000 - 02:24:45 MST

On Cryonet two prominent cryonics movement leaders have put forward their
thoughts. I thought it would be interesting to allow people to read the two
posts, compare and them and come to their own conclusions.

Robert Ettinger of the Cryonics Institute considers it overall a bad idea.
He feels it could backfire and create bad feelings against cryonics not to
mention legal headaches.

Paul Wakfer on the other hand believes there is an enormous amount of
possibility in this area. He plans to move forward and do something
concrete in this area if he can find the support.

Robert Ettinger has the more realistic take on things but then I admire the
determination of Paul Wakfer. It should be interesting to see what he can
stir up! Everyone duck! lol If he is successful things may get very
interesting. I still am saddened by the lack of support that he received
for the Prometheus Project.


John Grigg

Message #13111From: Ettinger@aol.comDate: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:27:54 EST
Subject: freezing the aborted
Freezing aborted fetuses is an old idea, discussed and abandoned several
times. It has obvious potential attractions, but, in the opinion of most who
have considered it, the downside dominates. Here are some of the risks:
1. It would be seen by some as encouraging abortion, and arouse active
opposition not only against the practice but against cryonics generally. (It
might also arouse more sympathy in some quarters, but that would be less
2. "Right to life" people are unlikely to become more sympathetic, partly
the reason mentioned above, and partly because, for many of them, the issue
is not really "right to life" but opposition to interference with "nature."
Some of the churches oppose freezing sperm, eggs, or embryos, even though
this tends to save or increase life.
3. Although it is cheap to store a small piece of tissue, it would not be
cheap to deal with the prospective clients; and those clients would tend to
be unstable and unreliable people. A large investment of time and effort in
each potential client would be required, and those turned down might
loudly. Lawsuits are guaranteed, with guaranteed losses in some
Sad, but best forget it. Let's keep on trying to save ourselves and the
people we know.Robert EttingerCryonics InstituteImmortalist Society

Message #13108Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:26:45 -0500
From: Paul Wakfer <>
Subject: Re: CryoNet #13101 Cryopreserving the unborn?
References: <>> Message #13101
>From: Daniel Ust <>> Subject: Cryopreserving the
>Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 09:50:04 -0500>
>(Note: I sent this to the Extropy list over the weekend.)>
>I don't know if anyone has thought of this before, but how about getting
>Right to Life individuals to support abortion by cryopreserving aborted
>fetuses? Surely, cryopreserving them would be cheaper. If we can get them
>to fund this sort of thing, it would be a way to both spread cryonics and
>defuse a very deep conflict in Western societies.>
>Perhaps we could analyze this problem from two angles. One would be
>technical feasability. The other is whether Right to Life groups would be
>willing to support-financially, politically, or morally-this option.>
>What do you think?This is discussed at my website
I have been working on this on and off for over 4 years (mostly off for the
CryoSpan, Inc even entered into a contract with Cryogenic Solutions of Texas
bethe repository of such aborted fetuses (they were going to be the public
for promotion and marketing) but it all fell through and they never went
with it. CryoSpan also atempted to become the repository of all the embryos
havebeen created by in-vitro fertilization and are no longer wanted.
Wrt funding, I believe there might even be a possibility of getting the
Church to fund such an endeavor.
I am planning to again pursue the possibility of this business (and its
potential for the promotion of the ideas of cryonics), later this year, and
welcome anyone who wishes to join together to do this.
I will try to find time to summarize all the pros and cons, obstacles and
solutions, but I would rather do this to a select group of people who are
pro-actively interested in effecting this rather than to a bunch on
nit-picking dilettantes.Please also add this to the extropian thread.
I used to be on that list, but I just don't have time for it currently.
Thanks for bringing up this very important idea.-- Paul --
Voice-mail: 416-968-6291 Fax: 559-663-5511 ICQ: 25490505
The Institute for Neural Cryobiology -
Perfected cryopreservation of Central Nervous System tissue
for neuroscience research & medical repair of brain diseases
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