Socialism vs. Capitalism (was Re: How do you calm down the hot-heads?)

From: alexboko (alexboko@umich.edu)
Date: Thu Sep 11 2003 - 14:11:28 MDT

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    There is a real axiomatic difference between collectivists and
    individualists, and it's likely to persist indefinitely. This reminds me
    of a cellular automaton experiment (Forgot the reference, anybody
    remember? It was in Science) where they found that neither strategy
    consistantly "wins" in the simulation... the "winning" side depends upon
    starting conditions, is hard to predict, and often the simulation just
    keeps on going in a perpetual state of flux between the two rival
    strategies.

    I think that's what the debate between individualists and collectivists
    is like, and I think it will last throught the next *several* singularities.

    That being said, the collectivist side in *this* particular thread may
    do well to read up on game theory. You will never convince anybody who
    doesn't agree with you to begin with if you proceed on the demonstrably
    false assumption that everything is a zero sum game.

    I'm deliberately not naming names to avoid a defensive reaction. Simply,
    within the privacy of your own brain, if the terms "positive sum game"
    and "zero sum game" are kind of vague, then google them and read up on
    them. I might do the googling myself and post the links later if I have
    time.

    Also, it looks like there's a terminological disagreement over the term
    'value'. Some people hold the axiom that value stems from the labor put
    into a product (value to the seller) and some hold the axiom that value
    stems from the usefulness of a product (value to the buyer). This can be
    completely sidestepped by instead talking about 'price', and that might
    be what you mean in the first place anyway. If we're talking about
    price, then it's determined simply by what gets exchanged for what. In a
    pure command economy it's determined by the governing body. In a pure
    market economy it's determined by the market. Usually it's a mix of
    both. Price objective, value subjective.

    Sorry if I'm stating the obvious.

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