IRAQ Reasons for War (was: RE: First Announcement of the Secretary of PUKE...)

From: matus (matus@snet.net)
Date: Sat Mar 29 2003 - 10:17:47 MST

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    Hubert,

            We all ready know that you dont like the war, so perhaps instead of posting
    these long diatrabes and desciptions of your previous days lunch's you could
    just say 'I dont like the war'. When you realize that you would end up with
    multiple posts each day that simple say 'I dont like the war' you will see
    why your arguments are getting your opinion no where. We know you dont like
    the war.

    > If you cannot understand that I am against the US/UK troops *and* against
    > Saddam Hussein at the same time

    You pay lip service to disliking Saddam, but have presented no evidence
    indicating as much. If you dislike him so much, then why the concentrated
    effort to dissuade people from voluntarily choosing to oust him?

    > but what can be more tasteless than
    > this current war on Iraq?

    Here you find an essential dividing point between you and us. Those who
    support this war see it as more tasteless to leave a murderous dictator in
    power than it would be to remove him. As Robert Bradbury pointed out,
    leaving Saddam in power will cause more deaths of Iraqi people then taking
    him out of power. He asked anyone to present a reasonable challenge to that
    notion, and received no responses as of yet. A few months back another
    poster presented an eloquent list of the reasons why extropians should want
    Saddam removed.

    We do not support war because we like to see people die, or get our jollies
    off of watching bombs fall in Iraq, and until you understand the reasons
    *why* those of us who actually support this effort support it, and address
    those points, your comments will not persuade anyone.

    For starters, in no particular order

    1) Saddam is a murderous tyrant dictator, his Anfal campaign was a
    systemetic attempt to wipe out the Kurdish population (aka genocide)
    conservative estimates has him responsible for 200,000 murders, 50,000 of
    which were perpetrated when he squashed the Shiite majority uprising post
    Gulf War I

    2) UN Security resolution 1441, signed as a unanimous vote in the UN,
    dictates that he should disarm peacefully and immediately and expose all
    previously discovered chemical, biological weapons and delivery systems. If
    he did not, he would face 'serious consequences'

    3) From an American perspective, Saddam poses a threat to the American
    People. 9/11 demonstrated the domestic American vunlerabilities, that small
    parties can inflict large casualties. We need not see an IRAQI battleship
    cruising up the Hudson to consider Saddam an immediate and direct threat,
    which leads into the next one

    4) Saddam is a despotic west hating tyrant, and it is reasonable to suspect
    that if he gets the capability to attack the US, he will. He has been
    actively trying to acquire nuclear weapons, attempted to build an artillery
    cannon capable of launching projectiles into orbit.

    5) Saddam controls the worlds second largest energy supply, and as a
    murderous tyrant, uses it for, surprise, murder and tyranny.

    6) There are no Arab Democracies, and a democratic IRAQ could potentially
    become a 'shinning beacon of democracy in an arab sea of tyranny, oppresion,
    and despair' When arab peoples see the life that can be lived in a free
    Arab nation, it can help to diffuse the anti-west hatred and anti-progress
    attitude that many arab theocracies, monarchies, and dictators have imposed
    upon their people. (Optimistic admittedly, but everyone is so pessimestic,
    its nice to have a little optimism)

    There are many other reasons to support the effort to remove Saddam Hussain
    from power, but unless you address and/or invalidate these points (or
    whatever other ones other supporters have) you will not change any ones
    minds. So I guess it boils down to what your goal is, reminding everyone
    that you dont like the war, or trying to change other peoples minds about
    it. We know you dont like the war, so dispense with your creative efforts
    at saying as much, and just post 'I dont like the war' Pointing out to
    supporters the dismay that the Iraqi people undergo dissuades no supports
    because they believe, legitamtely, the more suffering will be caused by
    inaction than by action.

    Additionally, no one has a *right* to be a Dictator, and that is what Saddam
    was. He could have walked away and saved all of the causalties and deaths
    now caused. He is morally culpable now for each and every death this War
    causes, simply because he wanted to remain a murderous dictator.

    Michael Dickey



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